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Anglers Angling for Tougher NC Rules on Shrimp Trawlers

8K views 39 replies 16 participants last post by  todobien 
#1 ·
#2 ·
Not even close. The regulations proposed are to get in line with most other states. Most states do not allow shrimping in inland waters or if there is they are HEAVILY regulated. NC is the only state to allow 220ft of head-rope AND trawling inside our estuaries. Why? Because the large fish houses down east own the pockets of our regulators. Now that NC has been filed against, they will have to come up with the reason why we allow different regulations than all other states. What makes NC special compared to other states?
 
#3 ·
when you say other States, are you including Louisiana, Mississippi or Alabama? Louisiana catches 10x the shrimp that NC produces and has a heckuva lot more shrimp trawlers than does NC. Another fact that you must not be aware of is that Louisiana does not have nursery areas that are permanently closed to shrimpers and basically allow shrimpers in all of its inside waters. Much of NC waters do not even allow commercial shrimping and are permanently closed. Alabama and Mississippi also allow shrimp trawling in most of their bays and sounds. Florida does not allow shrimp trawling in their inside waters nor does Georgia and SC. Then again SC , Georgia and eastern Florida do not have much inside waters deep enough to even be used by the larger shrimp vessels. Virginia has comparable waters but Virginia does not have shrimp
 
#4 ·
Though I'm all for any necessary conservation efforts based on science, I believe that each state is unique and should be managed as such. This deal where some think change is appropriate because "this is what (name a state) does" seems weak and lacking in scientific evidence. I believe that type of thinking has led to the failure of some other "conservation efforts" in the past when requested rule changes were proven to be arbitrary with undertones of alterior motive.
One would think that with the makeup of the current MFC the resource would be in a position to gain. I just hope that this petition has not asked for too much without the necessary scientific backing.
 
#5 ·
Louisiana has more shrimpers than NC and most other States combined while at the same time they have some of the best recreational fishing in the Country. Louisiana shrimpers are not even required to use finfish excluders in their trawls while NC requires them. What seems to be a huge number of fish caught as bycatch by NC shrimpers might not be significant when compared to what is out there. wonder if anyone in NC has ever conducted a study to determine bio-mass of juvenile finfishes prior to shrimp season and then sampled these areas during the shrimp season in order to see just how significant trawl impact had on these small fish. Think I read somewhere that about 90% of NC inside coastal waters were not even used by these shrimpers. I personally believe the petition is nothing more than another attempt to rid NC of more commercial fishermen. I fully support fishery management as long as its purpose is to help the fishery but do not if the primary goal is to rid NC of its commercial fisheries.
 
#6 ·
I'm not a biologist and know very little, but one thing I do know is that fishing has declined in NC. We no longer have good eating size fish that our parents use to catch on bottom rigs out in the sound and Icw. Frank White was an avid outdoors man who fished the Pamlico and he saw a great decline in the fishery when the "big" trawlers came in from Fla. Frank predicted the inshore fishery would disappear and it has. I'm not a biologist but time proves all things, and it has been proven. So lets get the trawlers out of the inland waters and let's see what happens. Who knows, it may return to what we had. Will it hurt to give it a try?
 
#7 ·
Just an FYI, Mississippi only allows a 50' head rope if single trawl and 25' head rope if a double haul. For those that don't know a "head rope" is the top floating rope at the mouth of the trawl net on an otter trawl. Louisianna also only allows a 50' "float line" which is what they call a head rope.
 
#8 ·
I cannot give an intelligent comment on head ropes,double hauls or a floating otter rope. I live in a subdivision on the White Oak River where we painfully watch 5 shrimp boats every day scouring the river for hours on end. Twenty five years ago we at least could take our kids and enjoy catching a few croakers, spot and flounder on our community docks. Now it is incredible that that you rarely catch the occasional pinfish. So where are they or where is anything? I wont go in to the numerous gill nets but i have to believe the panfish have all but disapeared due to the continuous shrimping. Where are the spot when the yellow butterflies show?
 
#9 ·
Speckhunter80, You must have forgotten that both the Breton and Chandaleur sounds are considered inshore waters and are protected from the gulf by the chandaleur island chain. These waters allow much larger shrimp trawls than 50ft and are found along Mississippi's and Louisiana's coastline. FYI, the following is from the Louisiana website regarding their shrimp trawl size requirements; . In Breton and Chandeleur Sounds as described by the “double rig” line in LA R.S. 56:495.1(A)(2), two trawls may be used, each measuring 65 feet or less in length along the corkline and 82 feet or less in length along the lead line, plus one test trawl.
 
#10 ·
So the max head rope not counting the try net is 130 ft. What is the max in NC and what are they asking for in the petition? Also what time period would you consider "before" shrimp season? As you know, lots of work has been done on the bio-mass that is being removed and continues to be done.
 
#13 ·
I find an earlier statement made here to be somewhat surprising. "There are no shrimp in VA." Really? I figured there would be some, maybe not enough to sustain commercial shrimpers but that they would still be present? And yes I'm aware of water temps but I wouldn't think that there is THAT much of a difference between NC and VA waters, especially in summer. Maybe I'm wrong.
 
#15 ·
Actually its 2 - 65ft trawls per shrimp boat and Breton/Chandaleur sounds are a little larger than Pamlico sound and looks like they make up about 50% of Louisianan's inside coastal waters. I do agree that an awful lot of small fish get killed each season in shrimp trawls and one would thinks that it is a serious problem. What were the numbers? 50 million pounds of total annual bycatch and works out to be approx. 500 million juvenile fish. That sounds like an awful lot of fish but is it a significant part of whats really out there? I read that one large female grey trout will produce nearly a million offspring each year. In other words around 500 large female grey trout can produce the entire shrimp trawl bycatch in NC each year. Of course we also know that very few of these small trout survive to reach maturity due to natural predation and fishermen. It should not be a hard job for our biologists to take samples of bycatch densities during the shrimp season to see if densities drop significantly or not during a typical shrimp year. Obviously there would be a decrease but is it a significant decrease? One would think that with as much shrimping that there is in states like Louisiana that a fish could not be found but we know that it not the case. Louisiana has some of the best rec fishing in the world. all I am suggesting is why don't we find out whether the shrimp bycatch is significant or not and is causing all of our problems before we put a lot of hard working fishermen out of work.
 
#16 ·
And the bottom line is "We need to find out" what is causing the decline in our fish populations.

It was good before the inshore trawling increased (after the Fla boats came up here because of the ban), so lets try putting the trawlers back in the ocean only and see if the fish populations return.

It won't take but 2-3 of years to find out.
 
#18 ·
Based on what I could find the current max headrope in NC is 220' so almost twice what LA allows in their Sounds. The petition is asking for 90'. Seems like there have been lots of studies over the years that show there is a significant amount of bycatch in the shrimp industry so study it again? Yet another attempt at delaying change. How about going to 90' while the study is being done vs maintaining status quo. I think the scientific support document analyzes data from past studies and says it is significant
 
#20 ·
seems to me that we really ought to make an attempt to find out if the total bycatch numbers are significant or not. Louisiana has a of bycatch but doesn't appear to have an adverse effect on their fishing. The Albemarle Sound (and its a very big system) does not allow shrimpers but yet its not full of spots, croakers, grey trout either. Chesapeke bay has no shrimpers and it also has few spots and grey trout but does have lots of croakers. 500 million or even 1 billion juvenile fish caught as bycatch seem like an awful lot but is that number 10% of the total that is out there or is it less than 1/10 of 1% or even less?
Do people actually believe that moving the shrimpers out to the ocean is going to reduce their bycatch? at time I can hardly fish the surf or the ocean piers using shrimp as bait due to all the small fish that constantly steal my bait. The bays and sounds are not the only location where one finds small juvenile fish. Shrimpers really need to be able to work in those waters where the shrimp are if they wish to make a profit and for the most part shrimp are found in the bays and sounds during the summer and then will eventually move out to the ocean later in the year. Fish do the same thing. as far as the attempt to reduce shrimpers work days to 3 per week, how would you like it if the gov reduced your work days by half with half pay.
 
#21 ·
The petition calls for all coastal waters, which includes the ocean side out to three miles to be designated as nursery areas. Even with a designation of SSNA, shrimpers could be blocked from working the ocean. So much for just getting nets out of inside waters. I'm sure gonna miss those fresh/wild shrimp, and fishing behind them shrimp boats.
 
#23 ·
From what I've read, that tourney was actually held in Currituck Sound, which supposedly used to be the best bass fishing in the country in the 70s. The Albermarle is very salty, and from what one local told me a couple years ago, it is one of the most illegally netted waterways in NC. Idk what kind of pressure it gets from trawlers.
 
#26 ·
I'm curious how many companies are fishing those inland waters for shrimp. I think it's important to look at how many citizens, and the states ecosystem are impacted by what is my guess a small number of companies pillaging our waters. I feel this way about any company that profits heavily off of nature. I see commercial fishing as taking something "free" and then acquiring it for consumers, and thus any company doing that should have to have as close to a zero impact on the environment it's profiting on as possible. It sure doesn't sound like that is the case. People say, that'd make it too expensive! Nature trumps profit in my book every time.
 
#27 ·
Most commercial fishermen that I know do not catch seafood without paying a high cost. The large shrimp boat owner can spend several hundred thousand dollars to rig up a shrimp trawler. Perhaps TexBob will enlighten us as to why he believes that commercials take a resource that is free? Most recs that I know also spend a good deal of money in their pursuit of a fish.
 
#31 ·
Excellent post Austen, I think you nailed it on the head. Farmers harvest a resource that they replenish at the start of every growing season. Input then output. One could argue that commercial and recreational licensure are forms of input, but when the stocking occurs in mountain streams rather than large estuaries where there is actually revenue to be generated, that argument can fall short.( I'll add that I am in support of taking measures that don't require stocking)
 
#33 ·
Maybe the majority feel that way. Given your handle, you would have a more informed opinion than most of us. However the ones who tend to make their voices most heard, in person and on the internet, do not seem to share such a favorable opinion on regulation. If the majority do feel this way, they are the (very) silent majority. If new regulations designed to enhance the fishery for all are one day decided by the voters, then I hope the silent majority is able to make its voice heard.
 
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