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Thread: Flounder Size Limit Increases

  1. #1
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    Default Flounder Size Limit Increases

    PROCLAMATION RE: FLOUNDER – RECREATIONAL PURPOSE
    Dr. Louis B. Daniel III, Director, Division of Marine Fisheries, hereby announces that effective at 12:01 A.M., Saturday, March 1, 2008, the following restrictions will apply to the taking of flounder for recreational purposes:
    I. MINIMUM SIZE LIMITS AND AREAS

    It is unlawful to possess flounder less than 15 inches total length taken from internal and Atlantic Ocean fishing waters for recreational purposes except as specified below:

    PAMLICO SOUND - No person may possess flounder less than 14 inches total length taken from internal waters for recreational purposes west of a line beginning at a point on Point of Marsh in Carteret County at 35 04.6166’N – 76 27.8000’W, then running northeasterly to a point at Bluff Point in Hyde County at 35 19.7000’N – 76 09.8500’W. In Core and Clubfoot creeks, the Highway 101 Bridge constitutes the boundary north of which flounder must be at least 14 inches total length.

    ALBEMARLE SOUND - No person may possess flounder less than 14 inches total length taken from internal waters for recreational purposes west of a line beginning at a point 35 57.3950’N – 76 00.8166’W on Long Shoal Point; running easterly to a point 35 56.7316’N – 75 59.3000’ W near Marker “5” in Alligator River; running northeasterly along the Intracoastal Waterway to a point 36 09.3033’N - 75 53.4916’W near Marker “171” at the mouth of North River; running northwesterly to a point 36 09.9093’N – 75 54.6601’W on Camden Point.

    BROWNS INLET-SOUTH – No person may possess flounder less than 14 inches total length in internal and Atlantic Ocean fishing waters for recreational purposes west and south of a line beginning at a point 34 37.0000’N – 77 15.000’W; running southeasterly to a point 34 32.0000’N – 77 10.0000’W.

    II. CREEL LIMIT
    It is unlawful to possess more than eight (8) flounder taken for recreational purposes per person per day or per trip if a trip occurs on more than one calendar day. The possession limit shall apply to flounder taken from internal and Atlantic Ocean fishing waters by all gears, including gigs, if possession is for a recreational purpose.

    III. GENERAL INFORMATION
    A. This proclamation is issued under the authority of N.C.G.S. 113-170.4; 113-170.5; 113-182; 113-221.1; 143B-289.52 and N.C. Marine Fisheries Rules 15A NCAC 3H .0103; 3I .0102, 3M .0503 and 3M .0512.
    B. It is unlawful to violate the provisions of any proclamation issued by the Fisheries Director under his delegated authority pursuant to N.C. Marine Fisheries Rule 15A NCAC 3H .0103.

    C. The intent of this proclamation is to maintain North Carolina’s compliance with the requirements of the joint Mid-Atlantic Fisheries Management Council-Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission Summer Flounder Fisheries Management Plan under the authority of N.C. Fisheries Rule 15A NCAC 3M .0512. This proclamation continues the minimum size limit of flounder taken for recreational purposes in internal waters west of a line in Pamlico Sound from Point of Marsh to Bluff Point and in Albemarle Sound west of Alligator River at 14 inches. The size limit east of those lines and in all other internal waters and the Atlantic Ocean north of Browns Inlet becomes 15 inches total length.
    D. This proclamation does not affect commercial fishing operations. Commercial harvest reduction requirements were met by a reduction in their total annual quota.
    E. This proclamation supersedes Proclamations FF-9-2007, dated February 6, 2007, and FF-10-2007, dated February 8, 2007.

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Flounder Size Limit Increases

    Something needs to be done to increase the number of big flounder

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Flounder Size Limit Increases

    I'm ok with that. I just worry that it means more females will be kept as they are the bigger of the species. I guess nets/gigs will get em anyway.
    * With "Self regulation", comes "De-regulation". Be responsible to the resource, not just obedient to the laws * *PROUD RED X ANGLER*

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Flounder Size Limit Increases

    Quote Originally Posted by sundrop View Post
    I'm ok with that. I just worry that it means more females will be kept as they are the bigger of the species.
    Drop - I'm afraid I don't follow your logic So help me out here.

    Most flounder over 3 pounds are females, but there is no slot for flounder (no upper size limit) so folks have always been able to keep the bigger fish anyway - nothing has changed there. Also you'll be no more likely to catch a 22" fish than you were before so that doesn't work. Just means you'll have to throw back more fish till you can reach your limit but as most of us flounder guys will tell you - most folks don't reach their limit anyway.

    Another point - a lot of those 14" to 15" inch fish we throw back are just going to end up in the commercial fisherman's cooler anyway cause they still have a 14" min size.
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  5. #5

    Default Re: Flounder Size Limit Increases

    I'm not much of a Flounder fisherman. I love cacthing them, but most of my kept fish would barely squeak by the old 14.5" limit. I believe in the conservation so, I don't mind the increased size limit but I wonder if a decrease in creel limit is not also in order.

    I'm still quite confused by the whole the commercial fishing situation so, I'm neither firmly against nor firmly in favor. However, don't these fish breed in the creeks and estruararies? If so, wouldn't it make sense to limit netting operations in these areas?

  6. #6
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    Default

    I'm with ya Blacklash, I have no problem with conserving our stocks if that is what is needed. Flounder limits are complicated but I'll try to summarize.

    Basically the limit allowed is measured in pounds of landed fish and is dictated to NC by the two councils that regulate summer flounder (Mid- Atlantic & Southern States). NC then in turn must enforce those limits. They divide up the total allotment into recreational and commercial categories and then come up with a way to implement those allotments.

    There are two factors involved in setting limits, min. size of the fish and numbers. For commercial fisherman, the number is expressed in pounds of fish, for recreational anglers it is expressed in the number of fish. But at the end of the day (so to speak) for recs, they project the number of fish caught by recs and the average weight (guessed) and then convert that into pounds of fish (remember the original quota/allotment is given in pounds).

    So as you can see on the rec side there is a lot of guess work. Size of the fish also plays into how long a female will be around to spawn. Female flounder are around 13 1/2 inch when they reach spawning age, the bigger they get (the older they get in other words) the more chances they have to spawn.

    Summer flounder spawn offshore in the winter. Other types of flounder found here (Southern and Gulf flounder) spawn inshore and at different times. Unfortunately the average angler can't/doesn't identify the difference in species and neither does the State so they are using data from one species (Summer) to set the guidelines for all (not smart in my book).

    I wish they would have made the size limit the same for both groups and in fact the same for the entire state.
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  7. #7
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    Default Re: Flounder Size Limit Increases

    Hey, TA, can you decipher the Browns Inlet portion of the proclamation?

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Flounder Size Limit Increases

    sickening................... all those flounder.
    A size increase doesn't bother me. The increase should be for both sides though, not just rec. That just allows more fish for nets.
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  9. #9
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    Default Re: Flounder Size Limit Increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Bread Man 1 View Post
    Hey, TA, can you decipher the Browns Inlet portion of the proclamation?
    Yup - I put the co-ordinates in my GPS map program. If you run a line that is perpendicular to shore and lay it on the north edge of Brown's inlet and let it extend out to sea, anything northeast of the line is 15.5 inches, anywhere Southwest of the line is 14 inch min. I attached a map I made with the program.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Brown Inlet Flounder line.jpg‎ 
Views:	48 
Size:	171.5 KB 
ID:	2006  
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  10. #10
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    Default Re: Flounder Size Limit Increases

    Thanks TA, in due time it all will pan out

    tight lines <*)))))>{
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  11. #11
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    Default Re: Flounder Size Limit Increases

    I think Comm need tighter regs and smaller quotas. I also agree that they are 2 species and need to be treated differently. I think keeping a few smaller ones (13-14) will boost the number of males kept and by limiting the size above that to a "slot" say 16.5" and over means NO fish between 14.5 and 16.5 can be kept. So naturally more females would get to spawn multiple times before they go in the grease.
    It would suit me if inshore netting was banned or at least limited to 2 short seasons a year. I also feel that gigging should be considered commercial harvest or "special harvest" and have it's own tight requirements and require an additional license/permit if not banned all together or also short seasoned. I don't think it is sporting, but I don't think you should Deer hunt with dogs either so I'm sure many disagree as is their right.
    * With "Self regulation", comes "De-regulation". Be responsible to the resource, not just obedient to the laws * *PROUD RED X ANGLER*

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Flounder Size Limit Increases

    Sundrop - I respectfully disagree with you on the 13.5 inch fish - that would just ensure that more females never get to spawn at all or reduce the number of times they can spawn. Putting a max size is a more effective way to ensure females spawn and remain in the fishery longer. They use the "slot" on stripers in the river and for drum and it has been very effective. It might be good to have a slot for flounder for a few years. But decreasing the allotment for both recs and commercial fisherman is also needed.
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  13. #13

    Default Re: Flounder Size Limit Increases

    I took a look at the NCDMF Flounder Fact Sheet which naturally appaers to be out of date. However, it appears that they see this a s Rec. Angler problem. They state , that the rec sector has exceeded their quotas by 27 million pounds, thus requiring them to extend the size limit from 15 inches to 15.5 inches. It appears that the data was from 2002 but, I assume the same mentality exsists in the current regulations.

    NC Summer Flounder Fact Sheet

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Flounder Size Limit Increases

    TA I guess ultimately what I am "trying" to acheive with limited knowledge I admit is an adequate, easy to catch number of allowed "keepers" for Recs to satisfy the desire to eat fish, while still having large productive fish out there to carry on the species yet stil have a size/quota on larger fish to let you carry one home to brag about occasionally.
    I definately see the advantages of a slot limit. I also see a need for lower quotas for both Rec and Comm. I dont think we disagree exactly, I just thing you have a better awareness of actual sizes and spawning habits than I do to base opinion on. So I will thank you for making me better informed I think we are in the same ballpark...
    * With "Self regulation", comes "De-regulation". Be responsible to the resource, not just obedient to the laws * *PROUD RED X ANGLER*

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Flounder Size Limit Increases

    I agree with a standard size limit. They also need to reduce the commercial catch limit.

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