Banning Flounder Fishing
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Thread: Banning Flounder Fishing

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\r\n As we all know by now, flounder fishing is being banned come August 23d, because of a decline in the stocks of the southern flounder. My question is, why are they banning all flounder fishing? The summer flounder and Gulf flounder are doing ok, with the summer flounder listed as abundant. Is it just because folks don\'t know the difference?
\nSounds to me like that\'s the case. I confirmed all three are involved by calling the NCWRC in Raleigh.\r\n
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by jerry condrey\r\n View Post\r\n
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    As we all know by now, flounder fishing is being banned come August 23d, because of a decline in the stocks of the southern flounder. My question is, why are they banning all flounder fishing? The summer flounder and Gulf flounder are doing ok, with the summer flounder listed as abundant. Is it just because folks don\'t know the difference?
    \nSounds to me like that\'s the case. I confirmed all three are involved by calling the NCWRC in Raleigh.
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    You\'re right. NC does not distinguish between the separate species when it comes to regulations. Flounder is flounder in NC. Seems like counting spots or noticing their configuration is too much for the average fisherman, so they lump them all together. Best scenario given all species are in our waters.
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    \r\n I thought the closure was put on hold for now?
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  • \r\n'; pd[1215923] = '\r\n
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    \r\n Here is the proposed bill from June that States they will vote this month between the 21st-23rd
    \nhttp://portal.ncdenr.org/web/mf/nr-45-2019-flounder
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    \r\n Main reason is most people... Me included could not distinguish btween the 3 species good. I have looked at photos compared etc But they all seem to run together after awhile. And a no keep rule keeps a lot of argument out of it when wild life checks you.\r\n
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    \r\n After the debacle over the red wolf restoration, where the species was recovering, then the USFWS and the NCWRC shrunk their habitat by 80%, I don\'t have too much faith in either body to do the right thing.\r\n
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by jerry condrey\r\n View Post\r\n
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    After the debacle over the red wolf restoration, where the species was recovering, then the USFWS and the NCWRC shrunk their habitat by 80%, I don\'t have too much faith in either body to do the right thing.
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    How did they shrink the red wolf habitat?\r\n
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by Shoaldonkey\r\n View Post\r\n
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    How did they shrink the red wolf habitat?
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    They took the red wolf\'s protected status away everywhere except the Alligator River Refuge, an area of 160,000 acres. That\'s the only place where they are afforded protection. This comes on the heels of a report that scientists have proven the red wolf is a viable species unto itself.
    \nThere are less than 30 roaming wild now. There were 135 just ten years ago. It has been proven they drive out or kill coyotes too.
    \nJust shows how stupid people can be..\r\n
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  • \r\n'; pd[1216077] = '\r\n
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    \r\n They sure did. Alligator River NWR is right up the road from me. The wolves also got Pocosin Lakes NWR which is literally right out my back door; giving them about 300k acres total- so maybe 450+ square miles just wasn\'t enough...so they fled the NWR\'s in search for more fruitful game opportunities on private land. Both of those refuges are a great place to check out a bear or a snow goose, but they are veritable wastelands for game. Mostly pocosin and bay; with the exception of the Pungo Unit, there isn\'t much in the way of game for a red wolf.
    \nAnd a viable species??... They don\'t run off coyotes, they interbreed with them. There isn\'t a red wolf in the wild that doesn\'t have coyote genes coursing through its DNA. Great idea at the time, but a failed effort... There was nothing more cool than hearing them howling every evening, but the idea of Red Wolf introduction is dead. I\'d suggest you do some more research, maybe pick up Dan Flores book; Coyote America. The 135 you speak of was because of intensive reintroduction and before the colossal coyote boom and interbreeding we have now.\r\n
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by Shoaldonkey\r\n View Post\r\n
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    They sure did. Alligator River NWR is right up the road from me. The wolves also got Pocosin Lakes NWR which is literally right out my back door; giving them about 300k acres total- so maybe 450+ square miles just wasn\'t enough...so they fled the NWR\'s in search for more fruitful game opportunities on private land. Both of those refuges are a great place to check out a bear or a snow goose, but they are veritable wastelands for game. Mostly pocosin and bay; with the exception of the Pungo Unit, there isn\'t much in the way of game for a red wolf.
    \nAnd a viable species??... They don\'t run off coyotes, they interbreed with them. There isn\'t a red wolf in the wild that doesn\'t have coyote genes coursing through its DNA. Great idea at the time, but a failed effort... There was nothing more cool than hearing them howling every evening, but the idea of Red Wolf introduction is dead. I\'d suggest you do some more research, maybe pick up Dan Flores book; Coyote America. The 135 you speak of was because of intensive reintroduction and before the colossal coyote boom and interbreeding we have now.
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    https://nortonsafe.search.ask.com/we...=1565399748384
    \nI did research it..http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/2019/...or-protection/\r\n
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    \r\n This is driven by the NC-DMF (Division of Marine Fisheries) and not the Wildlife Resources Commission.\r\n
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by crappie89\r\n View Post\r\n
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    This is driven by the NC-DMF (Division of Marine Fisheries) and not the Wildlife Resources Commission.
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    Thanks for that info..\r\n
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by crappie89\r\n View Post\r\n
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    This is driven by the NC-DMF (Division of Marine Fisheries) and not the Wildlife Resources Commission.
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    Hey Crappie: Sorry for being a technical nit picker, but it\'s actually the Marine Fisheries Commission appointed by the Governor. Most of NC DMF and the Director are against the closure, but DMF is bound by current law to follow the recommendations of the Commission. That said, this fight is probably far from over. If the MFC votes to close down flounder fishing (comm & rec) then there may be a lawsuit or the General Assembly might get involved. It will be interesting to see what happens. I\'m personally OK with the closure if that will help to restore the stock. Strangely enough, this year Southern Flounder seem more abundant than the last couple of years. But the stock assessment is what it is.\r\n
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by bmac\r\n View Post\r\n
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    Hey Crappie: Sorry for being a technical nit picker, but it\'s actually the Marine Fisheries Commission appointed by the Governor. Most of NC DMF and the Director are against the closure, but DMF is bound by current law to follow the recommendations of the Commission. That said, this fight is probably far from over. If the MFC votes to close down flounder fishing (comm & rec) then there may be a lawsuit or the General Assembly might get involved. It will be interesting to see what happens. I\'m personally OK with the closure if that will help to restore the stock. Strangely enough, this year Southern Flounder seem more abundant than the last couple of years. But the stock assessment is what it is.
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    That\'s not quite true. The commission voted to enact the closure originally proposed by the Division staff. The closure and timeline came directly from DMF. Advisory councils voted to accept the Division\'s recommendations. And to say the director is against the closure is stating the obvious. He\'s against anything that restores fish stocks at the expense of the commercial interests. It\'s status quo all over again...
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    \r\n We all take from the same resource. Not trying to start an argument but recreational release has a pretty high survival rate. Not so for gill net or trawlers. Gill nets do have a certain mesh size. But any fish caught is gonna die. Trawlers have an almost zero survival rate for anything that is caught. If forage fish or game fish are taken out of the system in quantity at a small size, recreational size limits and restrictions are a moot point. I know several commercial fishermen and have no beef with it. As long as the rules are applied equally for all and show real improvement in the stocks, I\'m ok with it. But I have never seen how just one species of flounder became over fished. Do they always overlap or are the ones of concern hit really hard in just part of their range. If so, then that\'s where the restrictions should be applied.\r\n
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by cervus\r\n View Post\r\n
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    That\'s not quite true.
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    Thanks for the clarification Cervsus. I was told it was all MFC and that DMF was pretty strongly against it. Good to know that there\'s people in the Division who are keeping their eyes on the ball\r\n
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    \r\n think that part of the perceived problem is that the definition of overfishing was changed mid way thru the rebuild project. The original southern flounder management plan was enacted back in 2005 and target were set to have stocks of flounder re-built by 2015 . In 2009 a new stock assessment was carried out indicating that the target or goal had not been reached but fairly close to being reached. More restrictions were imposed after that along with restrictions due to sea turtles requirements. When the next stock assessment was carried out in 2015 it did not meet peer review approval although it was good enough to indicate that flounder were still being overfished. But get this!!!! In 2010 the DMF significantly raised the target goal which made it much harder to end overfishing. One might get the idea that the DMF really did not want to see us end overfishing but it is what it is. Now we are being told that flounder are in desperate condition and drastic reductions must be made by both recs and commercials in order to save our flounder population. Trouble is this has been a banner year for flounder fishermen and lot s of us aint buying that doom and gloom sheet any more.\r\n
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    \r\n Either way people will just drive to Little River, Cherry Grove, or Georgetown and get the flounder bite
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    \r\n SC has a great fishery in my opinion and the same travel time for me to drive to Oak Island. Iím all for the closer in NC to replenish the amount of southern flounder to our waters. But it needs to be fair across the board for recs and commercial fisherman, no loop holes.\r\n
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    Old Coot Red X Angler with a in my dreams only Bucket List
    \n2013 Hobie Pro Angler 12 & 14
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    \r\n I have no issue with shutting down the season or stopping the flounder fishing for a year.
    \n
    \nHas anyone noticed the decline in size? Most of the flounder being pulled from southern NC and little river are barely keeper size.
    \nManaging the stock will provide better fishing for years to come. Target another species.\r\n
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    \r\n A Year- your dreaming- How many years has the Red drum limit been 1 per day? We ALL could live with shutting it down for a year but we ALL know better as well.\r\n
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    \r\n So small I haven\'t even seen a flounder this year! I Used to do really well with catching them but since the Hurricane-nada. I\'m all for the closure. let them live and breed.\r\n
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    Hobie Pro Angler 14
    \nIst and 2nd Place Oak Island Classic Trout Division , 2nd place TCM Tournament Trout
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    \r\n Thank you Shoal Donkey. You are spot on and saved me the trouble of a detailed explanation. 2 good friends of mine own the large farm that is ground zero of the wolf controversy...purebreds to mutts in a decade\r\n
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    \r\n There\'s no doubt coyotes and red wolves interbreed, but only in circumstances of one lone wolf being unable to find a mate. There have been several cases of red wolves killing coyotes, and coyotes evacuate areas where red wolf packs roam.
    \nHere is a picture of some coyotes in Louisiana showing red wolf characteristics. This is from the area where the stem animals for the restoration came from. If the red wolf was not a species unto itself, it would not have survived living beside coyotes for hundreds of years. Even the gray wolf has some coyote genomes in its DNA.
    \nhttps://wildlandsnetwork.org/campaig...ths-and-facts/
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    \r\n Only guessing, but I\'m guessing, the only red wolf you\'ve ever seen was in Asheboro.. The redwolf didn\'t survive beside the coyote. There were no coyotes east of the Mississippi when red wolf populations were thriving. Grey wolves didn\'t survive alongside coyotes, the US grey wolves moved back in from Canada where coyotes weren\'t and when they were, they were on the menu.
    \n
    \nAnd Dr. Oc- I had a farm on the North side of Mattamuskeet for years during ground zero of the introduction period... I thought it was one of the coolest things ever when they\'d be out there gathering and howling in the evenings for about two years... then they departed the refuge and took up residence on deer leases and farms, and as you said, they were circling the drain thereafter.
    \n
    \nSorry to high-jack a fishing thread with this, but couldn\'t let it slide... seems everybody in the center of the state always knows what\'s good for us on the coast. On a parting note, I\'d be all about a reintroduction effort in Thomasville.
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    \nTight lines boys.\r\n
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by Shoaldonkey\r\n View Post\r\n
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    \nSorry to high-jack a fishing thread with this, but couldn\'t let it slide... seems everybody in the center of the state always knows what\'s good for us on the coast.
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    Didn\'t know the North Carolina border stopped at Hyde County. I kinda suspected though.
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    \nSent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk\r\n
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by Shoaldonkey\r\n View Post\r\n
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    Only guessing, but I\'m guessing, the only red wolf you\'ve ever seen was in Asheboro.. The redwolf didn\'t survive beside the coyote. There were no coyotes east of the Mississippi when red wolf populations were thriving. Grey wolves didn\'t survive alongside coyotes, the US grey wolves moved back in from Canada where coyotes weren\'t and when they were, they were on the menu.
    \n
    \nAnd Dr. Oc- I had a farm on the North side of Mattamuskeet for years during ground zero of the introduction period... I thought it was one of the coolest things ever when they\'d be out there gathering and howling in the evenings for about two years... then they departed the refuge and took up residence on deer leases and farms, and as you said, they were circling the drain thereafter.
    \n
    \nSorry to high-jack a fishing thread with this, but couldn\'t let it slide... seems everybody in the center of the state always knows what\'s good for us on the coast. On a parting note, I\'d be all about a reintroduction effort in Thomasville.
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    \nTight lines boys.
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    Read this. https://nortonsafe.search.ask.com/we...=1565718042487
    \nNow fish and game has to protect them. These animals belong to the state, not just you who have land near them. I think to be frank, it\'s all about competition with hunters for deer. And if we had the land, I\'d gladly welcome them to Tville. Never hear about black bears killing deer, but they do, as do coyotes and gators. Wanna wipe all these out too? The coyote, yes, but that\'s an invasive species.
    \nThe red wolf was a NC native long before we were.\r\n
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    \r\n Any recent updates/changes on the new Flounder regulations? OH\r\n
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    \nUnderstand the meeting on 8-21 to 23 will be announced after same
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by JFH270\r\n View Post\r\n
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    OH
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    \r\n I try to avoid the he said she said politics when it comes to our natural resources. But I find it hard to believe that flounder stocks are down in the Pamlico. I’ve caught more flounder the last three years with several 50+ days. Not all keepers but plenty of fish. It seems to me that these juvenile fish just are not surviving to maturity. I do not think this is a hook and line issue. All it will take is another bad winter to knock down the trout numbers and a lot of recreational dollars will stop being spent on on N.C. inshore fishing. NCDMF and the NCWRC have failed the recreational angler time and time again and I imagine this will be no different they will close the season to recs. And find a loophole to allow commercials to keep a bycatch quota of some sort. It’s happened way to often. If flounder stocks are down for souther flounder only then closed the season for that species only. It will only take a ticket or two and anglers will learn the difference quickly but that would make enforcement work a little harder. (Just my Opinion)\r\n
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    \r\n I know I have to be fishing the wrong parts of the Pamlico, using the wrong bait, just simply donít know what Iím doing, or just maybe should give up fishing, but my experience is far from yours. The fish that I catch are too small or I donít catch many at all. The too small I interpret to indicate that there are few reaching the size limit. That can be improved by reducing the take and letting the fish get larger before capture. Really there is no enforcement of fishing regs. That pleases both the recs and commercials. Youíre on your own to follow the law.
    \nSo fishing will be no different for me: catch and release.\r\n
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    \r\n Hey shoaldonkey the recommendations of what is needed are not coming from the center of the state. They are coming from the South/Southeast of Roper - Carteret County (actually the HQ is there but they have staff in Eliz City, Washington, Morehead and Wilmington).\r\n
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  • \r\n'; // next/previous post info pn[1215885] = "1216357,1215901"; pn[0] = ",1215885"; pn[1215901] = "1215885,1215905"; pn[1215905] = "1215901,1215923"; pn[1215923] = "1215905,1215941"; pn[1215941] = "1215923,1215951"; pn[1215951] = "1215941,1215979"; pn[1215979] = "1215951,1216009"; pn[1216009] = "1215979,1216077"; pn[1216077] = "1216009,1216157"; pn[1216157] = "1216077,1215955"; pn[1215955] = "1216157,1215961"; pn[1215961] = "1215955,1215991"; pn[1215991] = "1215961,1216071"; pn[1216071] = "1215991,1216075"; pn[1216075] = "1216071,1216091"; pn[1216091] = "1216075,1216477"; pn[1216477] = "1216091,1215957"; pn[1215957] = "1216477,1215999"; pn[1215999] = "1215957,1216001"; pn[1216001] = "1215999,1216395"; pn[1216395] = "1216001,1216485"; pn[1216485] = "1216395,1216125"; pn[1216125] = "1216485,1216159"; pn[1216159] = "1216125,1216323"; pn[1216323] = "1216159,1216339"; pn[1216339] = "1216323,1216399"; pn[1216399] = "1216339,1216233"; pn[1216233] = "1216399,1216243"; pn[1216243] = "1216233,1216317"; pn[1216317] = "1216243,1216277"; pn[1216277] = "1216317,1216295"; pn[1216295] = "1216277,1216357"; pn[1216357] = "1216295,1215885"; // cached usernames pu[0] = guestphrase; pu[2839] = "jerry condrey"; pu[38809] = "cervus"; pu[19233] = "JFH270"; pu[44271] = "DJohnson"; pu[32529] = "Saltwater Republic"; pu[950] = "crappie89"; pu[43813] = "Shoaldonkey"; pu[22431] = "bmac"; pu[18753] = "GreyGhost"; pu[44179] = "Warcrack53"; pu[43941] = "Bitburger"; pu[34330] = "Dr. Oc"; pu[42917] = "Old Hunter"; pu[23077] = "Bowman66"; pu[23214] = "Feetup1"; pu[20752] = "todobien"; pu[1552] = "Fishin Technician"; pu[39354] = "coresounder"; pu[13132] = "Wellred"; // -->

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    1. #1
      Join Date
      Aug 2007
      Location
      Thomasville, NC
      Posts
      4,534

      Default Banning Flounder Fishing

      As we all know by now, flounder fishing is being banned come August 23d, because of a decline in the stocks of the southern flounder. My question is, why are they banning all flounder fishing? The summer flounder and Gulf flounder are doing ok, with the summer flounder listed as abundant. Is it just because folks don't know the difference?
      Sounds to me like that's the case. I confirmed all three are involved by calling the NCWRC in Raleigh.

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