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Thread: Kokanee salmon, Alabama bass and Kentucky bass to see regulation changes

  1. #31
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    [QUOTE=kb_rn;1219947][QUOTE=kb_rn;1219945][QUOTE=biglenr;1219933]
    Quote Originally Posted by kb_rn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by biglenr View Post

    I don't have to rethink.......smallmouth are my most favorite fish to catch. I go all over the place chasing smallies........but the facts are that NC is not a smallmouth state......our fisheries are much more suited for spots to grow in multitude and size. These are just facts.
    Nobody travels to anywhere to catch spots.

    You accept them if they are in your local lake. But you don't drive 2-3 yours for the excitement of catching some spots.

    The only destination fisheries in NC are saltwater or the monster catfish in some lakes. Our bass (whether LMB, SMB, or spots) are pedestrian by national standards.
    A lot of people travel from all over to fish lake Lanier and several of those lakes in Alabama. And a lot of people travel from far to go to several of those lakes in California. But to each their own.....but the end of the story is the spots are here .....and here to stay. I'm glad people hate them, that just means less competition I have deal with in Norman, belews, Fontana, hickory, Kerr Scott etc. I would love to see them in badin. The fact still is that there are tons more lakes in NC that don't have them so just go enjoy the trash fish largemouth else where.

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  3. #32
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    [QUOTE=kb_rn;1219949]
    Quote Originally Posted by kb_rn View Post

    Maybe you just don't know what you're doing? I've fished belews 10 times in the last 6 weeks and have had no problem at all catching high numbers quality largemouth. Before the spots it had little green rats in it(just like Norman) and very few of them due to the pollution back in the 70s -80s. If you don't like catching 60-75 2 pound spots in a day with several 3+ pounders(if you know what you're doing)then you have a serious mental problem IMHO.
    Out of curiosity, what size do you consider a quality Largemouth?

    Thanks,

    Fishscalz

  4. #33
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    [QUOTE=Fishscalz;1219963]
    Quote Originally Posted by kb_rn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kb_rn View Post

    Maybe you just don't know what you're doing? I've fished belews 10 times in the last 6 weeks and have had no problem at all catching high numbers quality largemouth. Before the spots it had little green rats in it(just like Norman) and very few of them due to the pollution back in the 70s -80s. If you don't like catching 60-75 2 pound spots in a day with several 3+ pounders(if you know what you're doing)then you have a serious mental problem IMHO.
    Out of curiosity, what size do you consider a quality Largemouth?

    Thanks,

    Fishscalz
    2.5lbs and up

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  6. #34
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    Maybe you could teach me how? You seem to hold all the answers. And you need to tone it down a bit. No sense saying posters here have mental issues just because they disagree with you...I have not been disrespectful to you and will not tolerate it from you.
    And I can tell you I know what I am doing..
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  7. #35
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    [QUOTE=kb_rn;1219949]
    Quote Originally Posted by kb_rn View Post

    Maybe you just don't know what you're doing? I've fished belews 10 times in the last 6 weeks and have had no problem at all catching high numbers quality largemouth. Before the spots it had little green rats in it(just like Norman) and very few of them due to the pollution back in the 70s -80s. If you don't like catching 60-75 2 pound spots in a day with several 3+ pounders(if you know what you're doing)then you have a serious mental problem IMHO.
    Do you know the difference between causation and correlation?

    It has been documented that Norman has benefited from Alabama bass, but your assertions above about Belews are incomprehensible because I'm suspecting pure BS. The precious Alabama bass you probably stocked yourself illegally will end up in the Dan, Mayo, and lower Smith, and eventually in Kerr and Gaston. More importantly, people like you are screwing up the rivers in NC and VA for cheerleading for illegal activity. You should be banned from the forum for encouraging illegal stocking, and spouting ignorant drivel.

    A word about Kentucky spots. These fish seem to have an advantage because they spawn later during lower river levels. Recruitment is high and they tend to overpopulate in smaller rivers and become stunted. Largemouth can grow up to 22 inches in small rivers such as the Eno. Spots, not so much. I have no experience with Alabama bass in the rivers, but if they are anything like Kentucky bass, they will multiply like fire ants. Secondly, if anyone thinks dams will mitigate movement upriver in streams, think again. I've observed Kentucky spots in small creeks above dams where no one fishes for bass. Some think Herons are carrying fertilized eggs on their feet. Anecdotal evidence has indicated this may have happened in Swift Creek (Neuse River). If Spots can be jump watersheds with the help of mother nature, this is huge, and all rivers in NC are now threatened.

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  8. #36
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    Ok guys, see the two TRs below. One on a spotted bass river that only has a few largemouth left, and a solid largemouth river. First, the largemouth river.


    I have an longstanding relationship with the streams and rivers of central NC. Most of my younger years were spent there, and when I needed amusement, or a reprieve from troubles, it is to the water I headed. Some things are difficult to let go, and walk away from.

    Opportunities to fish these rivers are far and few between in this adult life, but my buddy Jeff had been coaxing me to partake in recent weeks. He'd been texting me pics of 30 bass caught in one day on a nondescript river in Montgomery County, many of which were between 3-5 pounds. This past Thursday, I got a call.....his family was out of town, and conditions weren't shabby.

    I barely wrapped up the chores in time Friday evening to get ready to roll in the AM. In order for me to meet at the take-out by 7, I had to get up at 4 AM. I don't leave the house without pinching off a loaf. I jerked awake at 3 AM, and waited for the alarm, and proceeded with the activities a bit on the tired side. Jeff had suggested that I should have got up at three, and texted him at 4 AM so we could have started running shuttle at 6. That boy is one sick homie. BTW, this place is almost a 2 hour drive from my place!

    The river looked great upon arrival, and the air wasn't too heavy. We got our canoes in the river just before 8 after running shuttle. Jeff was carrying 2 baitcasters, 1 spinning outfit, and one flyrod. I had 2 flyrods, and one spinning rod. Topwater fishing was largely the game we were going to play.

    His first



    I lost a 2-3 pounder right out of the gate to took an intruder. I managed to loose a couple more before getting on in hand.



    This were kinda slow until around nine, followed by a one hour long uptick in action. Plucked this one out among the rocks with a clawdad.







    This river is way to rocky to fish PEs, Clousers. and most anything that sinks. The Intruders always work well in the rocks, but all the hooks on mine are dull, and sharpening circle hooks has been a frustrating experience.



    Shortly after the noon hour, we came upon some gradient. The river broadened out, dropped over some ledges that were followed by some righteous pools populated with submerged boulders. I pulled ahead of Jeff, and anchored up near some nice eddy lines.



    I noted an interesting rock flanked slot of water pouring into some deep stuff. I tossed a Heddon Torpedo right at the ledge, and water just friggin exploded. Got some great tuggage, leaps, Guessing 4.5 pounds.



    Things picked up again around 1.











    As the afternoon wore on, the fish were getting a little picky. Things had kinda shut down on my end, but Jeff started fishing weightless flukes, and massacre continued for him.

    However, around 3, we encountered some islands where the water became braided and skinny. This row of rocks greeted up. I went left, and Jeff went right. I thought my side had the most water, but the water kinda seeped through tiny channels to the right. Jeff proceed to hook some bigguns in some skinny.







    The island were a complete pain in the arse on my side. Although the fish were there, the water was hot and skinny. I did manage to observe a bald eagle while dragging my boat over rocks and such.





    Jeff had found a sizable trib on his side of the islands that I will not name. He ventured up, and managed to catch 5 bass back to back between 3 and 5 pounds. Here is one of them.




    ****, 8 hours of fishing in the the bright sunshine got us lobstered up a bit even with reasonable protection. This was fun. Jeff had caught about 30, and maybe 12 for me. Nothing under 12. Most were 2 pounds and up.

    Now for the lame two day spotted bass debacle.



    I wanted an overnight trip in the Piedmont or Foothills of NC over the holiday weekend. Shuttle coordination, user friendly access points, and hopes for catching a ton of fish, all factored into the selection process. I ended up selecting the Cape Fear because of the rumors I've heard, legal camping, boat ramps. I regret not selecting the Ararat or the Yadkin. More on that later.


    Set the alarm for 5 AM Sunday, collected myself and my son. Brian joined us for the trip as well, and we all made the 2.5 hour trip to Lillington. Shuttle took a about 35 minutes for this 17 mile trip.

    Brian had about 80 pounds of gear in his Jackson Cruise, which I might add, is one of Jackson's most versatile boats recreational SOTs. The Coosa and Cuday simply lack internal storage, and are too damned big and heavy. I had about 35 pounds of gear in the nose of my Disco 119. My son's yak has no internal storage, so I was carrying his gear as well as mine.

    We put in at Buckhorn dam just before 10. Certain times of year, Buckhorn produces stripers, but after flailing for 30 minutes below the dam, we proceeded down the river. I learned later that Buckhorn dam, and the islands between the dam and Buckhorn rapid should be a carp destination,
    @Fin
    .



    Buckhorn rapid guards the river downstream. This rapid is almost as technical as Double Shoals on the New below Fries. The rapid looks like a class I shoal in the pics, but this is a large river, and the total drop of the rapid is about 8' over 200 yds.







    The area above the rapid was populated with anglers, but the water was decent there, and immediately below the rapids. Little did we know that for the next several miles, the water rarely exceeded knee deep, and flowed over a relatively flat quartz bottom. We did find a few pockets of deeper water near the banks, and plucked up some spots. I caught about 7 on day one which was a very poor showing. I was expecting about a 50/50 largemouth/spot ratio. No largemouth were caught or seen on day one. Quite a few carp and catfish were observed, but mostly carp. The lack of largemouth was a huge disappointment. I did manage to get a solid hit from a 30 plus inch channel cat while stripping a clouser 10' from the boat,









    As we neared Lanier Falls, about 6.5 miles in, some deeper water was encountered, but the fishing did not improve. The deep rock bottom undercuts were probably home to some monster flatheads that keep the area thinned out.

    Lanier Falls appears to be at some sort of geological collision point. The river bottom is quartz, and the falls appears to be dam caused my molten rock. The smooth rounded rocks would certainly create some stiff hydraulics at higher flows, but today, it made a great place for swimmers, and rock lizards. Once again, this rapid is much stronger than what pics would indicate.





    We ended up setting up shop near Fishtrap falls. Twas a very cool spot.





    Burritos were prepared.



    Soaked up the surroundings briefly before calling it a day. I slept in the open air, Caleb made a shelter, and Brian did the hammock thing.







    Drinking a quart of AM coffee was much more satisfying than fishing. The water came straight from a creek.



    Some Raven Rock park pics. Numerous grottes and outcroppings were present for about 3 miles at the park area.





    The bites were slow to come Monday morning. Once past Hecter Creek some deeper water was encountered. Plucked a couple spots from the water, had a hit from a 17 incher, and a follow from an 18 incher. These were very nice fish to be Kentucky Spots. I also lost a 3 pound largemouth due to getting wrapped up in brush, one of two noticed during the whole trip. About noon, I did see one about 22" swim withing feet of the canoe. That being said, the fishing was horrible. The water became slack towards the end of the trip, and this moved us to paddle quite a bit.

    It is a pity the NCWRC stocked spotted bass in Avents Creek, Parker Creek, and the Upper Little River. This stocking has ruined the bass fishing in the CF watershed down from Jordan Lake, and Moncure. It is just a matter of time before they show up in the Deep and Haw. Once was recently caught in Swift Creek in the Neuse watershed. No one knows how it got there. [


    Fishscalz, and jerry condrey like this.


  9. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by jerry condrey View Post
    Maybe you could teach me how? You seem to hold all the answers. And you need to tone it down a bit. No sense saying posters here have mental issues just because they disagree with you...I have not been disrespectful to you and will not tolerate it from you.
    And I can tell you I know what I am doing..
    I said that as a joke....... relax. I did mean what I said about belews though, it has more than a fair amount of quality largemouth.....I don't care who calls B's on it.......don't really care. I know what my experience is. It's like the South Carolina/Georgia guys that moan and groan that spots are taking over Hartwell. I have had so many 100 fish days on that lake that were comprised of 70% largemouth in the last 2 years. I have had the same experience with Norman, belews, hickory, and some other mountain lakes......and sure......kick me off the forum. I'm not the one butt hurt about improving some of these lakes that were 100% dead seas a few years ago and are now thriving. I tell ya what......since y'all don't think there are on in Norman or belews, go down there between March and may and just look around...... you'll find out how wrong you are

  10. #38
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    kb-rn, tells us more about the blueback stockings at these lakes. It appears they were introduced the same time the spots were introduced. It appears to me you are serving up non sequitur sammiches because you don't understand the difference between causation and correlation, or perhaps you do. Keep on digging and shoveling.

    The tourney guys are adding content the lakes which will end screwing up the rivers. For this reason, all tourney fishing should be banned on all public waters.

  11. #39
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    I don’t know if my opinion belongs here since I’ve only been seriously targeting bass for about a year. Before that I usually fished small live bait or rooster tails for whatever bit.

    As someone whose just getting into bass fishing I really do enjoy the action brought by the spots, it’s usually a good indicator and reassurance in my mind that I’m doing it right.

    However I can also see the side of the more experienced anglers who’d rather catch a few less bass but of better quality. In a sport like bass fishing a few ounces or a pound makes a big difference and losing larger hard fighting fish that would be a major blow

  12. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrpossumtail View Post
    kb-rn, tells us more about the blueback stockings at these lakes. It appears they were introduced the same time the spots were introduced. It appears to me you are serving up non sequitur sammiches because you don't understand the difference between causation and correlation, or perhaps you do. Keep on digging and shoveling.

    The tourney guys are adding content the lakes which will end screwing up the rivers. For this reason, all tourney fishing should be banned on all public waters.
    You'll get no argument from regarding bluebacks and tournament fishing......neither have done our fisheries any favors. Badin is a prime example of how bluebacks make fishing in a largemouth lake extremely difficult. Sure they help the quality of the fish but after those fish leave the bank in the spring they no longer relate to structure the way they did before the bluebacks existed. Every year since then the offshore structure fishing has gotten worse and worse. On the other hand, the bluebacks and the spots/smallmouth do very well together much more so than largemouth. But the bluebacks are not good for the white bass population. It's a double edged sword. While I'm personally glad we have spots now, I have ever been glad to see bluebacks. Bluebacks are the reason the lakes like Murray in SC suck all summer and fall because the fish get out and relate specifically to the bluebacks over 100 foot of water and there is no pattern to it. That is the most aggravating thing in fishing, at least for me. I hate it. At least spots and smallies will still relate to cover if bluebacks are around like found on Norman and Fontana.

  13. #41
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    [QUOTE=kb_rn;1219991]
    Quote Originally Posted by mrpossumtail View Post
    kb-rn, tells us more about the blueback stockings at these lakes. It appears they were introduced the same time the spots were introduced. It appears to me you are serving up non sequitur sammiches because you don't understand the difference between causation and correlation, or perhaps you do. Keep on digging and shoveling.

    The tourney guys are adding content the lakes which will end screwing up the rivers. For this reason, all tourney fishing should be banned on all public waters.
    You'll get no argument from regarding bluebacks and tournament fishing......neither have done our fisheries any favors. I'm not a tournament guy. If it were up to me there would be no tournaments allowed from march-the first of June to allow the spawn to he unmolested like they do up north where they actually take care of their fisheries but that's another story for another day. Badin is a prime example of how bluebacks make fishing in a largemouth lake extremely difficult. Sure they help the quality of the fish but after those fish leave the bank in the spring they no longer relate to structure the way they did before the bluebacks existed. Every year since then the offshore structure fishing has gotten worse and worse. On the other hand, the bluebacks and the spots/smallmouth do very well together much more so than largemouth. But the bluebacks are not good for the white bass population. It's a double edged sword. While I'm personally glad we have spots now, I have ever been glad to see bluebacks. Bluebacks are the reason the lakes like Murray in SC suck all summer and fall because the fish get out and relate specifically to the bluebacks over 100 foot of water and there is no pattern to it. That is the most aggravating thing in fishing, at least for me. I hate it. At least spots and smallies will still relate to cover if bluebacks are around like found on Norman and Fontana.

  14. #42
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    I am not aware of bluebacks in Badin. But Badin has always been tough in summer. Boat traffic runs the bass deep.As for now largies are the only black bass species in Badin.
    And please read this from NCWRC about the Bamas in Norman and how they have decreased largemouth numbers.https://www.ncwildlife.org/Portals/0...Black-Bass.pdf
    And on your assertion smallmouth do well with these invaders, read this.https://www.ajc.com/sports/blue-ridg...Q8jdsipdUojqJ/

    And this on Chatuge..https://academic.oup.com/jhered/arti...33/88-1-14.pdf
    Just been my point that whether it's spots or Alabamas, these invaders destroy the native bass populations to some extent.
    And while I will say the largies seem to hold their own better, eventually they lose the numbers race.
    I talked to a friend Friday from the NCWRC. Ron says the fish in Belews are Bamas, not spots. He says the spots were stocked like possumtail said, in some eastern rivers where they are becoming more abundant.
    It is never good to introduce species where they are not native. The only exception in my opinion is in the case of mountain trout where native brookies declined and rainbows and browns were brought in.

  15. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by jerry condrey View Post
    I am not aware of bluebacks in Badin. But Badin has always been tough in summer. Boat traffic runs the bass deep.As for now largies are the only black bass species in Badin.
    And please read this from NCWRC about the Bamas in Norman and how they have decreased largemouth numbers.https://www.ncwildlife.org/Portals/0...Black-Bass.pdf
    And on your assertion smallmouth do well with these invaders, read this.https://www.ajc.com/sports/blue-ridg...Q8jdsipdUojqJ/

    And this on Chatuge..https://academic.oup.com/jhered/arti...33/88-1-14.pdf
    Just been my point that whether it's spots or Alabamas, these invaders destroy the native bass populations to some extent.
    And while I will say the largies seem to hold their own better, eventually they lose the numbers race.
    I talked to a friend Friday from the NCWRC. Ron says the fish in Belews are Bamas, not spots. He says the spots were stocked like possumtail said, in some eastern rivers where they are becoming more abundant.
    It is never good to introduce species where they are not native. The only exception in my opinion is in the case of mountain trout where native brookies declined and rainbows and browns were brought in.
    Sir I read those articles long before this discussion ever evolved. I am well aware about chatuge, lake watauga, etc. I believe what my personal experiences tell me about these lakes rather than what any ncwrc biologist writes down on paper. If memory serves me correctly they didn't even do a shock study on Norman several years ago when they did it on all other lakes due to spotted bass......so if that's the case then they don't even know how many largemouth are swimming around in that pond. The same people that write these articles are the same ones that think it's a good idea to kill any blade of grass that grows in plant lake in NC, the same people that watched the destruction of 3 of the greatest fisheries that the southeast had to offer, the same people that introduced grass carp into mattamuskeet and shearon Harris, same ones that continue to allow Gill netting and trawling. I could go on all day long about how dumb our ncwrc is. It's the worst of anywhere I've ever been. So no, I don't really believe much of anything they write. I believe my own personal experience and I've been fishing all over this state for 30 years.

    And badin was ALWAYS a great summer lake before the bluebacks got populated. Not traffic maybe plays an impact on weekends but not so much during the week. The last 3-4 years it has been terrible past the month of May and only good in the fall of it gets muddy like last fall

  16. #44
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    And whatever it is that you'd like to call them. We've been calling them spots forever and they will continue to be called that. Go down to lay lake, lake Jordan or Logan martin and say the word "Alabama bass" and they will look at you like you're a complete idiot. Yes, the spots in belews originally came from Norman, which came from keowee which came from the coosa river. And for whoever that accused me of stocking illegal fish......I've never done that, but I do believe whoever put in the effort to bring spots to Norman all the way from keowee deserves a medal. Because they single handedly turned a bass desert into a fantastic fishery. Same thing with belews. I didn't do it and never would, but I'm happy about it. You guys that enjoy fishing for those green trash fish every figure out how to catch 3-4 lb spots consistently and you'll change your mind about them. Those big spots are completely different from those 12 inchers. Most people just don't know how, when and where to Target the big ones.

  17. #45
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    I have fished Badin for 35 years and more. And caught fish there year round.Once won a tourney there in January and we weighed in 24 pounds. All caught on Carolina rigs on deep points. The key to Badin is simple. Warm weather= grass beds. Cold weather=lay downs and points.

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