04-08-2020 - New Hope Creek @ Stagecoach Road waterfowl impoundment - fluorocarbon and spinners for t3h win?
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Thread: 04-08-2020 - New Hope Creek @ Stagecoach Road waterfowl impoundment - fluorocarbon and spinners for t3h win?

  1. #1
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    Default 04-08-2020 - New Hope Creek @ Stagecoach Road waterfowl impoundment - fluorocarbon and spinners for t3h win?

    04-08-2020
    New Hope Creek at the Stagecoach Road waterfowl impoundment

    ~~
    Status: Took yesterday off from fishing to A. let my body rest and recover, and B. do some work on my equipment. After fishing for 8 straight days, most of which involved a fair amount of hoofing it to get to the water, and then scrambling around, over, and on rocks and hills and stuff, my body was feeling pretty beat. Not to mention that the week before that 8 day stretch I'd been out mountain bike riding like 4 straight days. So it had been almost 2 weeks since I'd taken a day to completely skip any kind of physical / outdoor activity. I needed it.

    Additionally a bunch of new kit had come in from Amazon orders over the past few days, so I wanted to take the opportunity to get some things sorted out gear wise.



    Anyway, I took the time to strip all the antique, 25 year old braid off of my favorite spinning reel. I replaced it with 40# test Spiderwire Stealth braid in the "High Viz Yellow" color. Then I did something new for me... I added a leader of about 3 feet of Berkley Trilene Fluorocarbon in 20# test. Since I'd never done this before, I did some Googling and Youtubing around, and decided to use a blood knot to join the lines. More on that in a bit.

    Plan:

    I'd noticed that up to this point, every fish I've caught in this creek, or Little Creek, which seems to have similar characteristics, has been on a lure featuring some kind of spinner. Beetle Spins in particular. Given that nothing else has been working, and especially not for any larger fish, I theorized that the turbidity or color of the water, or something makes lures with spinners uniquely suited for this water. So, my plan for today was to start off throwing Beetle Spins until I caught something, just to take the "skunk" possibility off the board. Then I planned to start throwing other kind of spinners, up to and including some full-size, traditional Strike King spinnerbaits. The goal being to see if I could connect with a bass of some sort. Largemouth, smallmouth, white, whatever... I just want to land my first bass of the year.

    The session started off great. I landed my first fish on cast 5 or 6 using a Beetle Spin.




    This came on an Orange bodied Beetle Spin. After this guy, I missed a strike that happened just as the lure was about to pop out of the water. No more hits for a few minutes, so I switched to a different Beetle Spin with a chartreuse green body. But this lure is bent or something, and has this really janky action where it swims sideways, turns upside down, zig-zags, etc. After 3 or 4 casts, I took it off and switched to the infamous red/white Beetle Spin.

    And then disaster struck. Remember the "blood knot" I mentioned earlier? Well, it was my first time ever tying one and it's a slightly challenging knot to tie from what I can see. What do you think the odds are that my very first one was good? If you said "close to 0" then you get the prize (the prize is a red/white Beetle Spin. It's currently resting at the bottom of New Hope Creek). Anyway, I went to throw a nice long cast, and really put a lot of energy into it, and as you might guess, the leader separated from the main line on the cast. No question it was the knot, as you could see the curly-q pattern in the end of the braid where it came apart.

    So I stood there on the bank and fiddled around for a while and tied another blood knot and I think I got this one right. But not being sure meant I mentally changed my plan. I don't want to throw any bigger, heavier (and more expensive) lures until I'm pretty sure my leaders are going to stay attached. So I went to a Rooster Tail instead. I had another fish on, but he shook off the line and flopped off the bank and back into the water just as I was pulling him up. I missed at least one more hit, and then I caught one more fish identical to the one pictured above.

    At this point, I heard Orange County Communications give out an alert to the fire/ems agencies in the county that the NWS had just issued a severe thunderstorm warning, which was expected to deliver winds up to 60 mph, severe hail and lightning. So I made like three more casts, and then packed my gear up and hauled arse back to my truck. Perfect timing. I got to my truck, loaded everything up, and drove about a quarter of a mile on Stagecoach before the bottom fell out.

    Anyway... net result was only two fish landed, but I feel really good about this. I got more hits in the slightly less than an hour I was there, than I have before even when I fished for 5+ hours. Was the difference the fluorocarbon leader? Sticking to spinner based lures? Random chance? The weather? Something else? Who knows, but for now I'm going to say that I kinda think the fluorocarbon actually makes a difference. And I still suspect that if I'm going to catch a bass out there, it may well be on a spinnerbait of some sort.

    Now I just need to keep practicing this blood knot business until I'm absolutely sure I have it down.

    Addendum:

    I wound up really liking this Spiderwire Stealth braid. It cast just about as well as the old Spiderwire I was using, even though this stuff subjectively feels a little bit stiffer to me. And I love the visibility of it. I like being able to see exactly where my line is at, and this stuff shows up really well. I think the combination of this braid + the fluorocarbon leader is going to work out really nicely.
    Bleedingblue, drjon, and OKSt like this.


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  3. #2
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    One thing you might notice in that "new kit" picture if you look carefully are these weighted hooks with a spinner blade attached:



    I'm looking forward to also trying these, with a plastic worm or other plastic creature bait of some sort. Maybe a Strike King Rage Swimmer or Rage Tail Crawdad.

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    Thanks for the post. I think over time you'll start to hone down the variables of what works and doesn't but what you said makes sense. I use a double-uni knot for tying my flouro to braid, as almost every one of my reels now has braid on it. After some practice I can tie a double-uni about as fast as an improved clinch, which is what I use as my terminal knot. My inshore and bass gear I use 20lb moss green power pro, and for my offshore reels I use 65 to 100 lb power pro depending on the reel and purpose. I always always tie a leader of flouro (and occasionally mono for certain situations such as topwater).

    I think the ultralight spinning reel will be helpful for some of your smaller waters but you'll need to downsize your line a bit. I'd go with 10lb braid and maybe a 10lb or 8lb leader for clearer water.

    Sounds like you got some fish to bite, that's great! Progress is made! keep it up
    drjon, and mindcrime like this.

    - Sam
    "Things are only impossible until they're not!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by SurfRider View Post
    Thanks for the post. I think over time you'll start to hone down the variables of what works and doesn't but what you said makes sense. I use a double-uni knot for tying my flouro to braid, as almost every one of my reels now has braid on it. After some practice I can tie a double-uni about as fast as an improved clinch, which is what I use as my terminal knot. My inshore and bass gear I use 20lb moss green power pro, and for my offshore reels I use 65 to 100 lb power pro depending on the reel and purpose. I always always tie a leader of flouro (and occasionally mono for certain situations such as topwater).

    I think the ultralight spinning reel will be helpful for some of your smaller waters but you'll need to downsize your line a bit. I'd go with 10lb braid and maybe a 10lb or 8lb leader for clearer water.

    Sounds like you got some fish to bite, that's great! Progress is made! keep it up
    No decisions have been made yet, but I was toying with just going with straight fluorocarbon for the ultra-light setup. But yeah, in either case, I'll definitely be taking the line size down quite a bit.

    I may try the double-uni. It looks a little bit easier to tie, for sure. OTOH, I think once I've practiced the blood knot enough, it'll become second nature. Everything is hard when it's brand new to you.

    I like the palomar knot if I'm trying to something small, like a snap swivel, or directly to a hook. Otherwise, I also prefer the improved clinch knot.
    drjon likes this.


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    On your day off check out the FG knot for a braid to leader connection. Salt Strong has a good video on how to tie it. It takes some repetition to learn to tie it correctly but it is a good strong knot and very thin as well. You may or may not like it but it is worth a look.
    ~JOE~

    found a link for ya https://www.saltstrong.com/articles/fg-knot/
    mindcrime, and SurfRider like this.

    Solo Dei Gloria

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joetrain View Post
    On your day off check out the FG knot for a braid to leader connection. Salt Strong has a good video on how to tie it. It takes some repetition to learn to tie it correctly but it is a good strong knot and very thin as well. You may or may not like it but it is worth a look.
    ~JOE~

    found a link for ya https://www.saltstrong.com/articles/fg-knot/
    Thanks, I will check that out. I saw one guy's blog post where he went in and stress tested a variety of different knots empirically, and I think the fg knot was the one he recommended based on his tests. I am kinda looking for an alternative to the blood knot, as I'm finding that it's particularly hard to tie when one material is much stiffer than the other, as is the case with this fluoro and braid combo I have.

    I may also try the double-uni. I watched one video on it and it looks fairly easy to tie.

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    double unis are pretty easy to work with
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    Glad you connected with some fish. The lure pictured is a weighted swimbait hook so whatever plastic you use with it get something that had a lot of action. A rage swimmer would be perfect.

    My $0.02 on leader knots. The blood knot is one of the thicker ones. The knot smacking the guides, I think, can damage it. It does affect cast length and accuracy. The FG knot is supposed to be the thinnest but I find it almost impossible to tie and have never had one hold up. I've tried a nail knot but the leader slips right through the braid. Tried a Alberto and I didn't care for it either. My favorite is a double uni. It is relatively thin. You can tie it in under a minute. I use it for leaders and my terminal knot. Since I switched I have never had a knot fail at the lure and I can't recall breaking a leader either. My final comment is that I have zero confidence in a fluorocarbon leaders. Every one I have ever tied had broken fishing or if I get hung it breaks off at the knot. I don't want to tie a new leader every time I get hung. On the other hand I love co-polymer line, specifically P-line CXX. If you do the uni put 8-10 wraps on the braid side but you only need 6 on the mono/fluoro side.

    PS- if you aren't sure of your knots tie your leader and lure on then stick the hook on something sturdy then do a couple hooksets. If it is bad it will probably break. Better before you fish than losing a lure or worse a fish.
    mindcrime, and SurfRider like this.

    Tight lines,
    Andrew

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    It might help if you downsized your line. It will give your baits more lifelike action. 20lb leader for a beetle spin or rooster tail is way too heavy. The heaviest I go is 10lb leader but usually 8lb is the norm
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    Andrew and I have had the conversation a couple of times while out fishing about the flouro. I think it's fine, I have not had problems with it, but I will say it is not forgiving when it comes to knots if they are not tied properly. It's prone to heat and crush damage if the knot has an overriding loop in it somewhere, and I always lubricate the knot with some spit before I cinch it down to cut down on momentary heat as the material slides over itself.

    I agree 20lb leader is much heavier than needed for a beetlespin, but I assume it was out of the hope of getting your lure back if you got hung up. For clearer water or a lure with wobbling action, I agree you'd want something lighter.
    - Sam
    "Things are only impossible until they're not!"

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    So here's the thing guys... I am typically bank fishing, not fishing from a big ole bass boat, which means I generally have one rod & reel with me. And at any given moment, I may be fishing anything from a Beetle Spin, to a big ole crankbait or 3-blade spinnerbait. And I'm too lazy to tie and re-tie a leader every time I switch lures. The 20# leader to me, is a good compromise where I have a good shot at getting a hung lure back, and working with lots of different baits.

    The other thing is, this is just a hobby to me; it's not like I'm a BASS tour pro who really needs every fish to avoid putting a payday in jeopardy. And I don't have sponsors paying for lost lures. If I miss a few fish because of the line/leader I use, I can live with that. I accept that other people will take a different stance on this, and that's fine. "Different strokes for different folks" and all that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mindcrime View Post
    The 20# leader to me, is a good compromise where I have a good shot at getting a hung lure back, and working with lots of different baits.
    Valid point, makes sense
    - Sam
    "Things are only impossible until they're not!"

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    That said, when I get paid next week, I think I'm going to put together a true "ultra light" spinning setup with like 4# line and optimized for working those really super small / light lures and that really clear stream water that you see in Duke Forest and what-not.
    drjon likes this.


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    Until you get the blood know down pat, a tiny drop of Superglue will lock the lines in place without leaving a bump.
    mindcrime likes this.


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