Govt has to tell you what hook to use
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Thread: Govt has to tell you what hook to use

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\r\n\r\n Default Govt has to tell you what hook to use\r\n

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\r\n https://www.obxtoday.com/top-stories...ional-fishing/\r\n
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    \r\n Already use circle hooks, don\'t see a problem..... ICM\r\n
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    \nMy wife keeps saying I don\'t listen to her .... or something like that.
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  • \r\n'; pd[1227161] = '\r\n
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    \r\n They work good for drum and blues. How about other usually smaller fish?\r\n
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    \r\n Didnt see the larger than 2/0. That makes me less concerned now. Still though..\r\n
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by bertboy90\r\n View Post\r\n
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    Didnt see the larger than 2/0. That makes me less concerned now. Still though..
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    That seems worse to me. The article says that you have to use a hook larger than 2/0 if you are using "natural bait". That reads to me like if I\'m fishing for spot with bits of shrimp, I\'d have to use a 3/0 hook, which is crazy. Especially since that would allow me to use a j-hook or a smaller circle hook if I used Fishbites. I reckon that\'s got to be wrong, but I\'m not sure what other inference to take.\r\n
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    \r\n What\'s the issue with using a type of hooks which will improve the sustainability of the ecosystem? Is it the end of the world that you have to crush your barbs or use circle hooks?\r\n
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    Disabled & Stuck On The Bank, Where No Fish Live
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    \r\n The issue in my book is the government TELLING me I have to use a certain type of hook. Recommend, okay, Advise, okay, but requiring is not okay in my book.
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    \nJust more government over reach.\r\n
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    The first myth of management is that it exists!!
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    \r\n I’m a big fan of both circle hooks and barbless hooks. I fished barbless for years but have somehow gotten away from it. I have lost some fish with barbless hooks but I release 99.9% of my catch so if a fish gets away so be it.
    \n~JOE~\r\n
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  • \r\n'; pd[1227201] = '\r\n
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    \r\n If you want to use circle hooks use circle hooks. J hooks have their place with certain species. Offshore, rigging ballyhoo with j hooks is much more effective than using circle hooks. It is ridiculous for the mfc to put a blanket rule in place for hooks.
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    \nIf a fisherman notices he is constantly gut hooking fish, he will most likely change his hook selection anyway.
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    \nWhy is the MFC discussing hook types when bottom trawling is still allowed? Red herring.\r\n
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    \r\n \r\nDrum Solo, and \r\nmindcrime like this.\r\n
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by crappie89\r\n View Post\r\n
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    Why is the MFC discussing hook types when bottom trawling is still allowed? Red herring.
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    Last I checked, recreational fishing was in long-term decline in terms of the number of people participating(despite population increase). If fish stocks are threatened despite that, either the remaining fishermen are really good, or...\r\n
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by Drum Solo\r\n View Post\r\n
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    Last I checked, recreational fishing was in long-term decline in terms of the number of people participating(despite population increase). If fish stocks are threatened despite that, either the remaining fishermen are really good, or...
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    Drum Solo I\'d like to know who wrote the report that says the number of people participating in Recreational fishing were decline, I want to carry that person Trout fishing on the Pamlico so he can see where his decline went to! Over the past 10 years the number of people fishing in my home area sure has not declined and in fact has probably close to doubled. 15 to 20 years ago I could fish during the week and maybe see half a dozen other boats, now the ramps are packed full with 30 to 50 trucks & trailers, there are boats everywhere Monday thru Friday and God only knows what it looks like on the weekends... I\'m guessing it must be the same guy that said the Flounder were in decline in the Pamlico Sound, because he was wrong about that too!
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    \nAs for the Circle hook rule, I too feel it\'s regulation over reach.\r\n
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by hyperstriper\r\n View Post\r\n
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    Drum Solo I\'d like to know who wrote the report that says the number of people participating in Recreational fishing were decline, I want to carry that person Trout fishing on the Pamlico so he can see where his decline went to!
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    I linked to it in my post. So far no one has had anything to say other than "there are a lot of boats out on the river when I go fishing". A pretty obvious possible explanation for that(especially weekday fishing) when it comes to the Pamlico would be Baby Boomers retiring and moving to retirement communities, etc. etc. This would increase the number of people fishing on the Pamlico without increasing overall numbers of people fishing. And this is why anecdote is not the singular form of "data".
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    \nI\'ll be the first to admit that one metric taken from one source isn\'t the end-all, be-all, and you would be right to not trust survey data 100%, but that\'s why I also linked in the bit about fewer fishing licenses being sold. I find it pretty hard to believe that DMF can\'t keep an accurate count of how many licenses it sells every year, and # of licenses sold seems like a pretty good substitute for # of people fishing to me, unless you believe that there are hoards of poachers out there.\r\n
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    \nTeach a man to fish and he\'ll give away all your good spots.\r\n
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by cervus\r\n View Post\r\n
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    Think about it...
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    I did, but I might not be the smartest...
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    \nThere are other news stories that say that the circle hook thing is just for shark fishing. Minutes from the meeting aren\'t online but the packets are, and the presentation on circle hooks didn\'t focus specifically on sharks and appears to have been dealing with all recreational fishing.\r\n
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    \r\n Here is the link to the new rule. https://deq.nc.gov/es/news/press-rel...hing-beginning
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    \nThe way I read it, it only applies to shark fishing with natural bait. Like ICM said; what\'s the big deal?\r\n
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    \r\n My concern is "give them an inch and they will take a mile".
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    \nI fly fish and have been smashing my barbs down for 30 years so this will not affect me.
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    \nNext they will say you must use 50lb test line so you can land them quicker and not stress the fish. One could say that is ridiculous. Before long you have fishing regs thick as a phone book and you have to stay up all night figuring out what is legal or hire a lawyer. Never doubt governments ability to do stupid crap. Heck, I remember in the 80s when the Pentagon was paying 250 for toilet seats and 50 for an ordinary screw driver (might have been a hammer, long time ago).
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    \nTo the guys who disagree, I respect your opinion. No heat from me. You do make a good point. I just don\'t trust them.\r\n
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by derekp\r\n View Post\r\n
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    My concern is "give them an inch and they will take a mile".
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    \nI fly fish and have been smashing my barbs down for 30 years so this will not affect me.
    \n
    \nNext they will say you must use 50lb test line so you can land them quicker and not stress the fish. One could say that is ridiculous. Before long you have fishing regs thick as a phone book and you have to stay up all night figuring out what is legal or hire a lawyer. Never doubt governments ability to do stupid crap. Heck, I remember in the 80s when the Pentagon was paying 250 for toilet seats and 50 for an ordinary screw driver (might have been a hammer, long time ago).
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    \nTo the guys who disagree, I respect your opinion. No heat from me. You do make a good point. I just don\'t trust them.
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    ^^^^^THIS........ give them an inch and they will take a mile. For example. the Roanoke river rule which goes out June 30th(thank goodness cause then I can float it for bass and not have to ruin my lures) says single barbless hooks from a certain date to June 30th. this rules out a double shad rig. Yes you can catch them on 1but a double rig is more effective. they never even considered that.
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    \nand yes one day the regs will be as thick as a phone book and so confusing some won\'t bother to fish then it will come out that barbless circle hooks injure fish and cause pain to them and fishing will be be a thing of the past. Don\'t laugh, it is gonna happen one day if we keep letting them do this.
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    \nand if recreational fishing is declining or flat and stocks are dwindling then the rec fisherman are not the main problem but we get the rules placed upon us.\r\n
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by Mack in N.C.\r\n View Post\r\n
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    ^^^^^THIS........ give them an inch and they will take a mile. For example. the Roanoke river rule which goes out June 30th(thank goodness cause then I can float it for bass and not have to ruin my lures) says single barbless hooks from a certain date to June 30th. this rules out a double shad rig. Yes you can catch them on 1but a double rig is more effective. they never even considered that.
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    \nand yes one day the regs will be as thick as a phone book and so confusing some won\'t bother to fish then it will come out that barbless circle hooks injure fish and cause pain to them and fishing will be be a thing of the past. Don\'t laugh, it is gonna happen one day if we keep letting them do this.
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    \nand if recreational fishing is declining or flat and stocks are dwindling then the rec fisherman are not the main problem but we get the rules placed upon us.
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    All good points. One thing that is imperative is we HAVE to elect politicians who are outdoors friendly. That starts at the local level. I’ll be the first to admit to overlooking the local races to view State or Fed elections. Get involved ( I’m looking in the mirror also) and maybe we can curtail the “phone book regs” ordeal we’ve seen in other aspects of our lives.\r\n
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by Mack in N.C.\r\n View Post\r\n
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    ^^^^^THIS........ give them an inch and they will take a mile. For example. the Roanoke river rule which goes out June 30th(thank goodness cause then I can float it for bass and not have to ruin my lures) says single barbless hooks from a certain date to June 30th. this rules out a double shad rig. Yes you can catch them on 1but a double rig is more effective. they never even considered that.
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    Actually, the rule explicitly prohibits "tandem rigs", so they clearly thought about it.\r\n
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by Drum Solo\r\n View Post\r\n
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    Actually, the rule explicitly prohibits "tandem rigs", so they clearly thought about it.
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    Imho they did not think about tandem rigs for shad when you are using 1/8 oz jig heads or less. They were most likely thinking about bigger rigs. double fluke rigs, double butter bean bucktail rigs using 1/2 heads is typical of a buttterbean double rig.
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    \nFWIW i have never seen a game warden give a ticket when using a shad rig after April the first and I have fished one several time right in front of different wardens and they did not ticket me and told me they would not enforce a shad rig but the next one may which is the problem. a small shad rig with a barb(2 barbs actually on a dbl rig) hurts the rare striper caught on it way less than a big hook with no barb.\r\n
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    \n 1232 Jon Boat, Wilderness Systems ATAK 140, Ascend 12T
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    \r\n This is a non-issue. It\'s not government over reach. It\'s best management practices. Our population is growing and things like this just make sense. Circle hooks catch more fish imo anyway. I use them on every bottom rig no matter what the target species.
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    \nAlso one less excuse for the comms to pin excess fish mortality on recs as some big cause of fishing decline.\r\n
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by Mumbo_Pungo\r\n View Post\r\n
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    This is a non-issue. It\'s not government over reach. It\'s best management practices. Our population is growing and things like this just make sense. Circle hooks catch more fish imo anyway. I use them on every bottom rig no matter what the target species.
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    I always use circle hooks too, at least for beach fishing. There is a big difference, though, between "sharks only" and what was originally described in the article linked by the original poster.
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    \nOther than that, "our population is growing" really isn\'t accurate. It\'s hard to get decent data, but from what I\'ve seen, recreational fishing participation been flat or in decline for a number of years. This only goes back a few years, but the link below is to an NC DMF report showing year-over-year decreases in the absolute number of coastal fishing licenses sold every year from 2015-2018, despite the fact that the general population is increasing. Check the tables on the last few pages.
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    \nhttp://portal.ncdenr.org/c/document_...LFE-141803.pdf
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    \nFederal data shows basically the same thing. Go to this link and run 1981-2016 for NC. The trend is basically flat/decreasing. Again, this is in absolute terms. All of which is to say that if recreational fishing pressure is decreasing, and fish stocks are still struggling, commercial fishing activity is almost certainly the culprit.
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    \nhttps://www.fisheries.noaa.gov/recre...istics-queries
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    \nEdit: the NOAA site didn\'t like my first link, which was more direct. Click on the above link and then click on "open our query tool".\r\n
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    \r\n Either way I\'m fine with it.
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    \nGuess if number of recs isn\'t going up it just means all my spots got out lol. See way more boats on the river than I ever did 5-10 years ago.\r\n
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    \r\n I’m OK w this also. With Hunting/Fishing licensing on the decline, I’m OK w doing little things like this (also Steel shot for waterfowl) to get ahead of the issue/debate. We should be able to take the high ground on our conservation efforts so there will be opportunities for our children.\r\n
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by derekp\r\n View Post\r\n
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    My concern is "give them an inch and they will take a mile".
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    \nI fly fish and have been smashing my barbs down for 30 years so this will not affect me.
    \n
    \nNext they will say you must use 50lb test line so you can land them quicker and not stress the fish. One could say that is ridiculous. Before long you have fishing regs thick as a phone book and you have to stay up all night figuring out what is legal or hire a lawyer. Never doubt governments ability to do stupid crap. Heck, I remember in the 80s when the Pentagon was paying 250 for toilet seats and 50 for an ordinary screw driver (might have been a hammer, long time ago).
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    \nTo the guys who disagree, I respect your opinion. No heat from me. You do make a good point. I just don\'t trust them.
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    ^^^^^THIS........ give them an inch and they will take a mile. For example. the Roanoke river rule which goes out June 30th(thank goodness cause then I can float it for bass and not have to ruin my lures) says single barbless hooks from a certain date to June 30th. this rules out a double shad rig. Yes you can catch them on 1but a double rig is more effective. they never even considered that.
    \n
    \nand yes one day the regs will be as thick as a phone book and so confusing some won\'t bother to fish then it will come out that barbless circle hooks injure fish and cause pain to them and fishing will be be a thing of the past. Don\'t laugh, it is gonna happen one day if we keep letting them do this.
    \n
    \nand if recreational fishing is declining or flat and stocks are dwindling then the rec fisherman are not the main problem but we get the rules placed upon us.
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    If I\'m not mistaken isn\'t the Roanoke fishery almost exclusively rec fisherman?
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    \nAlso, that fishery made a big comeback due to proper management of it.
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    \nRight now our salt water fisheries are managed by a hodge podge of commercial fisherman, recreational fisherman, and ONE scientist.... This is the main issue. We don\'t manage our fisheries using scientific knowledge and understanding of them. Instead we have a political ******* match.\r\n
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by Mumbo_Pungo\r\n View Post\r\n
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    If I\'m not mistaken isn\'t the Roanoke fishery almost exclusively rec fisherman?
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    \nAlso, that fishery made a big comeback due to proper management of it.
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    \nRight now our salt water fisheries are managed by a hodge podge of commercial fisherman, recreational fisherman, and ONE scientist.... This is the main issue. We don\'t manage our fisheries using scientific knowledge and understanding of them. Instead we have a political ******* match.
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    not imho.....the fishing I experienced in the 80\'s was waaaay better than today.
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    \nand today i would bet that in May when you cant keep them more die from catch and release than from barbed hooks before 4/1.
    \ncommon to see buzzards standing on logs laying into the water getting floaters from all the dead stripers from catch and release.
    \nDuring catch and release season imho everyone needs to use at least 17 lb line and get them in quick and release quick or they die. catch one on 10 or 12 lb line. play it in . take a pic or 2 and it will be a floater. barbless hooks are not saving those fish.
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    \nfish that would of survived catch and release in late Feb, march and early april have a harder time as the water warms.\r\n
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    \r\n Me and my dad were out fishing yesterday and we got talking about the terrible inshore fisheries management in NC. We realized that if you took speckled trout away there literally wouldn\'t be a viable inshore salt water fishery.
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    \n* Croaker are mostly gone
    \n* Spot are mostly gone
    \n* Grey trout are mostly gone and a 1 pet day limit
    \n* Flounder are currently not allowed and studies show have been in decline
    \n* Drum are doing better but only 1 allowed per day
    \n* Striper are mostly gone and you can\'t keep them
    \n* Bluefish stocks are having issues and now only 3 per day
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    \nLucky for us speckled trout spawn like jack rabbits and can overcome some poor management.
    \n
    \nI have fished the Pungo river for over 20 years now and know many others who have lots of experience on it. Trout are doing good. Flounder have declined over the years. This is the first year in almost half a decade or more that puppy drum have been around, others I talked too including guides say the same. Striper have declined except when they stocked them and then it was just a bunch of 8-12 inch fish.
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    \nAre fisheries are a disaster. That is not an exaggeration. If you take time to think about it you realize our fishing is a shell of what it could and should be.\r\n
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    \r\n Let\'s see, either they\'re trying to exert control over the population by regulating hooks or their trying to protect the resource. Which option do you think is more likely?\r\n
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by ppowell\r\n View Post\r\n
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    Let\'s see, either they\'re trying to exert control over the population by regulating hooks or their trying to protect the resource. Which option do you think is more likely?
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    Something in between the two options. I have spent most of my career in government and/or dealing directly with state government regulatory agencies, and it is very common for regulatory/policy staff to a) be very much in earnest about the mission of the agency they work for, and b) to take well-intended actions that have unintended consequences.
    \n
    \nI don\'t agree with all of it, but most of the pushback I\'ve seen on this thread has been very reasonable. Mack in NC\'s post a little ways up the thread is an excellent demonstration of what I\'m talking about re: unintended consequences. Regulating tackle is inherently complex and Mack made some good points that I had not considered. I\'m not saying that is a reason to not mandate circle hooks for shark fishing, just an illustration of how easy it is to mess these kinds of regulations up.\r\n
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by ppowell\r\n View Post\r\n
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    Let\'s see, either they\'re trying to exert control over the population by regulating hooks or their trying to protect the resource. Which option do you think is more likely?
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    Perfectly said.\r\n
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    1. #12
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      Quote Originally Posted by Drum Solo View Post
      Last I checked, recreational fishing was in long-term decline in terms of the number of people participating(despite population increase). If fish stocks are threatened despite that, either the remaining fishermen are really good, or...
      Drum Solo I'd like to know who wrote the report that says the number of people participating in Recreational fishing were decline, I want to carry that person Trout fishing on the Pamlico so he can see where his decline went to! Over the past 10 years the number of people fishing in my home area sure has not declined and in fact has probably close to doubled. 15 to 20 years ago I could fish during the week and maybe see half a dozen other boats, now the ramps are packed full with 30 to 50 trucks & trailers, there are boats everywhere Monday thru Friday and God only knows what it looks like on the weekends... I'm guessing it must be the same guy that said the Flounder were in decline in the Pamlico Sound, because he was wrong about that too!

      As for the Circle hook rule, I too feel it's regulation over reach.

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