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Overweight lines

9K views 56 replies 13 participants last post by  OptiMystic 
#1 ·
In browsing around various places trying to figure out a good reasonably priced (read: cheap) fly combo to fish at the coast (in shore, surf and near shore) I have come across the subject of going over weight on lines several times. The way I read it is that if you go up a weight or two (no more than two) you will have a very soft rod rod for the weight, but you can adjust your casting motion a little to account for it. I don't think this is a long term solution by any means, but it would soften the blow of upgrading by spreading the purchase out - get a heavy line, then an upgraded reel (assuming you have a cheep reel that can hold all the line to use at first) and finally the rod. I have a piece of junk plastic reel that has a couple of redeeming qualities - plastic won't corrode and it has a very large spool. I have used it in the surf numerous times with a 6w rod and line casting flies right about the high end for 6 and not all that far (sometimes reasonable distances if the wind helps). If I put an 8w line would I be able to throw bigger flies and/or further distances or would I be hating life every time I tried?
 
#47 ·
No, I said I didn't know what I didn't know. I mean I learned about a lot of options besides the one or two I was considering that make more sense to me in the short term. Especially with respect to using the higher density line in the same weight to get more distance and potentially better results with the flies I am trying to get better at throwing around the shore.

I confused you with the the three locations - sound, surf and beyond the breakers (from the kayak). I did not mean that I was planning to cast from the surf to beyond the breakers with a 6w.

If I sold what I have, which is some decent but lower end stuff, I probably wouldn't have that much to go toward the better setup and I am now less confident that I know what the logical next step is.

It could be that tomorrow I get one of my kids to video me and people tell me that I am amazing and it is clearly the gear holding me back. I suspect that will not be the case.

I do appreciate the various offers I have received for what may be good deals on equipment, but I have decided to hold off until I feel more confident in what I am doing with what I have or I really find out the equipment is holding me back instead of just assuming it.
 
#48 ·
Andy, I am where you are right now (overwhelmed), if I understand you correctly. Everyone's opinions here are greatly appreciated, but seems there are differences of opinions that I am sure work for those who are very good at fly casting. I am in limbo right now. lol. At 67 yo, and little experience with fly fishing in general, and in an area where there are few fly fishermen it is very confusing for me. I've only tinkered with the idea of fly fishing in the surf, but It is interesting to me. If I ever did it, it would be something that I would not do very often at all. Also, in the few shops that even have a tiny corner for fly fishing equipment, the selection of equipment is sparse, and little fly fishing experience for those who will wait on you. I have seen times where getting flies down is a must, but very few of those for me, since I mostly fish in areas where the water would mostly be shallow (under 8 feet). I have picked up several tips fro so many here that I will try their methods and recommendations. Hope the discussion continues.
 
#49 ·
Whew!...I take a looong day off from the forum to "work" and go to a grandsons birthday party...and so much info has been posted I have difficulty digesting it all. The topics that have been mentioned cover a very broad range of fly fishing (line wts, uplining, reels, drags, sinking lines, self-casting clousers, water hauls, technique for casting sink tip and sinking lines, surf casting flies, theories on line selection, manufacturers methods, personal philosophies etc. etc.) ...so broad in fact that we have probably done a disservice to each of them by only discussing them in snippets. Here's a few thoughts:

Bigger flies (if you need bigger) are more easily cast using bigger and heavier lines...the weight of the line overcomes the wind resistance and weight of the fly to drag the fly more easily and efficiently thru the air. To quote a friend and guide "I 'shore' kin cast a big streamer with a 6wt...but the 8 does it so much easier..." I have to agree...when I take a 6 and an 8 in the canoe for the day...I almost always would rather toss poppers and streamers using the 8. And even though the 6 is more limber than many...the line on it is equivalent to a 7+ wt. I had an 8 wt rental Pfleuger rod (retail at $50) and lined it with 10 wt line...cause folks could cast it better with the heavier line.

Long sinking tip lines or fully sinking lines require a different cast than that used with floating lines...the loop of the cast should be much more open or elliptical...check out Belgian Cast. These sinking lines need to be stripped in until only about 20 feet or so are left in the water...then a roll cast is used to bring the line up and lay the line on the surface and immediately picked up into the backcast ( a water haul as was mentioned is a good way to do this)....making a big oval as you transition to a forward cast.

The most efficient method in many cases is to have a rod rigged with a sinking tip/head/line...and another rigged with just floating line...but that's more $$$. An option is to have a length of sinking line (7-10') and loop it to the front of the floating line when you need depth...and remove it when you are back to wanting to use just the floating line.

Everybody I know will benefit from good instruction and refresher training and coaching. Practicing bad technique only reinforces bad technique...and most of us fall into bad, lazy habits without a good coach occassionly prodding us back into good form. I had had a variety of instruction from good guides and authors...then spent two days at a casting clinic featuring Bob Clouser, hosted by Guide Gary Dubiel. I was pleasantly surprised at the additional learning afforded by two days of steady casting instruction and clinic. And ever since, I've taken advantage of FFF clinics, presentations by Lefty, Bob, Joe Humphreys and others...and always dust off some rusty skills and pick up something new.

Shoulder issues are often caused by raising the elbow...which would likely be happening when "not letting the hand go past the ear." There are variations on casting style and each works well. If you have shoulder and elbow issues....research Lefty Kreh's suggested method for "keeping the elbow on the bench."

Opinions....like "noses"....some work well for some folks and not so well for others....

And to parapharase a quote from Guide Sarah Gardner..."over analysis leads to paralysis."
 
#50 ·
I love the way you put things in perspective Richard. Has to be difficult with the ranges of fly casting abilities here. I vaguely remember seeing a vid a while back with either Lefty Kreh, or Bob Clouser where thy had a method of casting with the elbow against the side to help those with shoulder/arm probs cast better.
 
#52 ·
At the risk of clouding the waters, Lefty's method does not advocate keeping the elbow close to the ribs....only at that level as the arm travels back and forth....i.e. the arm travels back and forth as opposed to going up and down. On longer casts you'll see the arm stretch out behind. Imagine standing next to a chalkboard and drawing a 4' line back and forth horizontally, parallel to the floor. If you were to cast by raising your elbow, which some folks like, the chalk line would be vertical. Both methods work but Lefty's method is much easier on the shoulder and often results in a more efficient cast for distance, for a lot of folks. The rod can be parallel to the ground...or at an angle or almost vertical.
 
#53 ·
The elbow close to the ribs is a general rule a few PTs have given me because of my bursitis, not something general for fly casting. I have some issues with my technique, but I am pretty sure that having my elbow too far out isn't one of them. Too far in? I hope not; if I do any repetitive motion with my elbow out shoulder pain/swelling is pretty much guaranteed.
 
#55 ·
Thanks Bruce. I need to get back to practicing a roll cast. Notice, I didn't say my roll cast because I don't have one yet. I do have one questions about that. How heavy fly can be roll cast? A few of my flies are fairly light by coastal standards, but nowhere nearly as light as the ones the mountain trout guys use. I am sure that the Prince I used last year to cat the rainbows would be much easier than what I mostly use. I am sure fly line weight also makes a difference. My leaders are from 7 foot to 9 foot. I know the shorter the leader, the easier it is to roll cast. Hope this isn't too far away from the original purpose of this thread.
 
#57 ·
I am not sure that is possible. This thread has gone in so many directions that no matter where you are headed I am sure there is a flight headed in that direction. No hijack needed. That flight might make 2 or 3 unscheduled stops though; PM is wise... :D

I have learned a bunch from this. It sounds like some others got something out of it as well and a few folks got frustrated with it. Thanks to all! I am going to try a couple of things that I think will help and will follow up with some people. I also plan to go catch some fish...
 
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