[PontoonMike]

I randomly reached out to one of our NC DGIF biologists via the DGIF website to ask 3 questions:

1. Are there any white bass in Belews?
2. Has the DGIF ever considered putting stripers in Belews?
3. When was the last fish survey on Belews?

The gentlemen not only got back to me the next business day, he took the time to really provide a thorough answer that I thought I'd share here. Sir, if you're reading this, thank you again for such a detailed response!

1. There are no white bass in Belews Lake.
2. We have considered striper/hybrid striper stockings in Belews Lake and decided against them. Belews Lake is extremely sterile (hence the high water clarities) with very low levels of nutrients and bait fish. As a result, there is already a shortage of food items for predator species to eat, and throwing one more large predator into the mix would only worsen the situation. The other factor working against stripers/hybrids in Belews is the high summertime water temperatures caused by the discharge of hot water from the power plant that would increase metabolic stress on species like stripers/hybrids that prefer cooler water. Studies on other reservoirs in N.C. show that stripers/hybrids can still do well in reservoirs where summertime water temperatures are higher than what they would ideally prefer. But this only happens in more fertile lakes where bait fish are so plentiful that the stripers/hybrids can eat enough extra bait fish to offset the higher metabolic activity induced by the warmer water, which is not the case in Belews.
3. Our most recent fish population survey in Belews Lake was a survey of the black bass fishery in spring 2021 (the black bass family includes largemouth, smallmouth, spotted, and Alabama bass, among others). In a nutshell, the historic largemouth bass fishery is being overtaken by the non-native Alabama bass, an exotic species that is being illegally spread across the state by anglers. While Alabama bass look similar to spotted bass, which are relatively benign and coexist well with other species of black bass, Alabama bass create major problems for largemouth bass. Alabama bass outcompete largemouth bass for resources and reduce their numbers, effectively replacing the larger, more desirable largemouth bass with the smaller, generally less desirable Alabama bass. I’ve attached a newspaper story about this issue from a couple of years ago if you’d like to read more about it.

 

[Cam]

Thanks for sharing, glad he elaborated on his answers as well - interesting read.

 

[kb_rn]

He was correct in the first two responses but not even close on the 3rd one. Yes it’s full of spots……but it is also very much full of largemouth as well and I have caught them like crazy all winter. The lake was terrible before the spots and has been very good since then. The spots are really starting to get big as well. Just have to know how to catch the bigger ones.

 

[NCTribute]

He was correct in the first two responses but not even close on the 3rd one. Yes it’s full of spots……but it is also very much full of largemouth as well and I have caught them like crazy all winter. The lake was terrible before the spots and has been very good since then. The spots are really starting to get big as well. Just have to know how to catch the bigger ones.

So once again a scientific statistical study with historical data is proved wrong by a guy who caught a bunch of fish. Sign of the times. Ugh.

 

[SurfRider]

So once again a scientific statistical study with historical data is proved wrong by a guy who caught a bunch of fish. Sign of the times. Ugh.

'Ugh' is so right... I mean, people sharing their personal extensive angling experience on a lake is a terrible thing. For shame, especially since generalized historical data and statistics are always 100% accurate when applied to specific and unique living ecosystems, and the biologists are always right about everything. What do any of us poor saps know about Belews anyway, it's not like it's a unique lake or as if anyone has based their opinion on countless hours of actually fishing it. I need to refresh my search of NCTribute's posts on Belews so I can peruse the cornucopia of knowledge I have missed about the lake. Thanks so much for the wisdom!
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On a more serious note, thanks PontoonMike for sharing your correspondence. Belews has always been a bit of an enigma when it comes to bass fishing. It remains a subject near to my heart.

 

[NCTribute]

'Ugh' is so right... I mean, people sharing their personal extensive angling experience on a lake is a terrible thing. For shame, especially since generalized historical data and statistics are always 100% accurate when applied to specific and unique living ecosystems, and the biologists are always right about everything. What do any of us poor saps know about Belews anyway, it's not like it's a unique lake or as if anyone has based their opinion on countless hours of actually fishing it. I need to refresh my search of NCTribute's posts on Belews so I can peruse the cornucopia of knowledge I have missed about the lake. Thanks so much for the wisdom!
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On a more serious note, thanks PontoonMike for sharing your correspondence. Belews has always been a bit of an enigma when it comes to bass fishing. It remains a subject near to my heart.

How exactly are electro shock fish studies generalized?

If anything the comment validated the biologist‘s study. Yes, you might be catching more fish, but at the expense of harming the largemouth population. More than likely the spotted bass that kb_rn claims to be catching are the Alabama bass mentioned by the biologist.

The biologists are managing the lake for largemouth, kb_rn just wants something tugging on his line, there in lies the problem. The biologist is not incorrect, as claimed, just two different desired end results.

https://journalnow.com/invasive-bass-species-poses-threat-to-native-bigmouth-and-smallmouth-bass-in-belews-lake/article_2fb1b020-20b4-11eb-9ca0-ff96468f05cd.html

 

[SurfRider]

His post said he was still catching good largemouth numbers. That was my experience in the hundreds of hours I have spent on that lake as well. Yes the Alabama bass are there, yes historically they tend to take over lakes, but Belews is a unique lake and thus far the two species seem to be co-existing. That was my experience with it, and sounds like kb_rn's if I understand his post correctly. The results of shock studies are dependent on when and where they are conducted - I could point to areas where I believe the sample results would be in measurably different proportions of fish depending where they are done, so the results are subject to some degree of sample bias. Some of tournament anglers and local boys out there have been doing better with larger largemouth over time in recent years, as well.

But based on the condescension with which you responded to kb_rn's post, I doubt there is much point in the discussion, anyway.

 

[NCTribute]

How does pointing out a few largemouth hot spots on the lake and some locals who have been able to pattern the largemouths (assuming they are largemouth and not the Alabama/LG hybrids mentioned in the article) align with analyzing the total makeup of fish throughout the entire lake, which is what the biologist is doing?

It is pretty simple, anecdotal evidence such as what you are presenting does not make a valid argument against solid scientific method. If this is condescending, then so be it.

 

[SurfRider]

If this is condescending, then so be it.

So be it.

 

[kb_rn]

So once again a scientific statistical study with historical data is proved wrong by a guy who caught a bunch of fish. Sign of the times. Ugh.

Let’s hear your input then smart @$$…….do you fish the lake 3-4 days per week? You ever met any of the biologists in that district……his name is Seth myco and if you have ever heard him talk or met him you would know he’s not very bright……just like most of the ncwrc employees.

 

[kb_rn]

How exactly are electro shock fish studies generalized?

If anything the comment validated the biologist‘s study. Yes, you might be catching more fish, but at the expense of harming the largemouth population. More than likely the spotted bass that kb_rn claims to be catching are the Alabama bass mentioned by the biologist.

The biologists are managing the lake for largemouth, kb_rn just wants something tugging on his line, there in lies the problem. The biologist is not incorrect, as claimed, just two different desired end results.

https://journalnow.com/invasive-bass-species-poses-threat-to-native-bigmouth-and-smallmouth-bass-in-belews-lake/article_2fb1b020-20b4-11eb-9ca0-ff96468f05cd.html

When I say spots I mean alabama bass. Idk of a single bass fisherman that calls them “alabama bass”. Go down to the coosa river and ask someone how the “alabama bass” fishing is and take note of how others look at you.

 

[SurfRider]

kb_rn you're shouting at the wind. We all know the 'spots' in Belews are 'Alabaman Bass' and everyone just calls them 'spots' ('spots' meaning Kentucky bass, which have already been discussed at not being the same species but referred to still as 'spots'.) Jerry Condrey posted about it like months to years ago, there have been whole threads on it, of which I've been a knowing participant, said the same thing you're saying. I've logged countless hours on that lake, as have you and more recently. If he'd bothered to read the posts he'd know about that too. We know the biologists, we know the 'data'. Some of us actually know the lake, and I have 'data' of my own but you won't see it in an article. Doubt he's ever even been on Belews, if so not more than once or twice. He'll post about the science, but a true scientist also knows there is 'in vivo' and there is 'in vitro.' And the results are not necessarily the same.

 

[clemsondds]

kb_rn you're shouting at the wind. We all know the 'spots' in Belews are 'Alabaman Bass' and everyone just calls them 'spots' ('spots' meaning Kentucky bass, which have already been discussed at not being the same species but referred to still as 'spots'.) Jerry Condrey posted about it like months to years ago, there have been whole threads on it, of which I've been a knowing participant, said the same thing you're saying. I've logged countless hours on that lake, as have you and more recently. If he'd bothered to read the posts he'd know about that too. We know the biologists, we know the 'data'. Some of us actually know the lake, and I have 'data' of my own but you won't see it in an article. Doubt he's ever even been on Belews, if so not more than once or twice. He'll post about the science, but a true scientist also knows there is 'in vivo' and there is 'in vitro.' And the results are not necessarily the same.

Are you still in NC? From your signature, it looks like you moved to florida back in 2016. Just curious

 

[SurfRider]

Are you still in NC? From your signature, it looks like you moved to florida back in 2016. Just curious

Thank you for your curiosity. I do live in Florida, I moved here in 2016. I have family (including my parents and most of my immediate family) and friends in NC, I grew up and lived most of my life there. In fact, almost all of my family live within 40 minutes of Belews, so I am quite literally in the area every time I visit them. Because of that, I am still fortunate enough to fish there when I can, as the bass fishing there is something to be missed. Unfortunately, many of my trips are brief and short-notice and I don't get to arrange to catch up with friends, which sucks. That being said, Belews, as I said earlier in this thread, is one of my favorite lakes, and if you care to look at this forum's post history on it, you will probably see that it has a special place in my heart. From a pure numbers standpoint I would wager I still fish it more often than most of those on this forum. Thank you for your inquiry and interest in my whereabouts, though. How often do you get to fish Belews? What has been your experience with it? Please share! I love hearing about people's time on the water there. If there is something else you're still curious about please let me know.

 

[Beef15]

For the past year I've fished Belews a few times a month, kayak and motorboat. It's a hard lake, steep and deep.
Seems far from sterile, visible baitfish schools over 100yds long, and bass stacked beneath them early in the year. Baitballs on the graph year round. Always see bass swimming in the endless lay downs, and usually minnows and good sized shad along the bank, and the occasional dead crawfish.
Do I catch 'em non-stop, no, I suck, usually manage about three 1-2lb spots a trip of 4-5 hours. The majority of the fish I have caught have been in water over 60' from top to bottom of the column.
I understand most surveys are electro fishing, which a little reading indicates isn't much good beyond about 10' down, almost seems pointless in such a lake.

 

[BronzeBackWanderer]

From talking to a smallmouth biologist I'm acquainted with, the danger of Alabama bass is not the extirpation of smallmouth or largemouth in the system, but hybridization or general out competition of largies and smallies to the point where the system is mainly Alabama/hybrid bass vs. pure Largemouth or smallmouth.

When the NC biologist said largies are the preferred species, it's because their growth ceiling in much of the world is higher than the growth ceiling of Alabama bass. I was told by the biologist I know that Alabama bass get large in their native range, but they tend to hit a growth ceiling of around 5-6 lbs in most resevoirs -- while largemouth can obviously hit 10+ lbs in most reservoirs and river systems.

Alabama bass feed hard, so the numbers of Alabama bass caught in a day will be higher than the number of largies or smallies caught in a day -- corroborating SurfRider's experience -- but the average size of fish caught will be lower. That's why the "bucket biologists (expensive live-well biologists)" move them from system to system -- to have systems in which they can have more 100 fish days.

I'm a smallmouth guy, and Alabama bass terrify me. When they hybridize with smallmouth, I was told their growth ceiling maxes out at 3lbs -- with dinks to 1.5 lb fish being the majority of the catch. I'd rather have a 20 fish day with multiple 20+" fish than a 100 fish day where the biggest fish I catch is 15" (excuse the units of measurement mix up -- I don't weigh my fish as I'm a wade angler).

Someone introduced Alabama bass to Claytor Lake, and another biologist I listened to a podcast from is quite worried about the future of that blue ribbon smallmouth fishery.

 

[SurfRider]

Belews was once a lake with big fish, before it was considered dead after the kill in the late 70's and 80's reportedly due to selenium. I have had long conversations with people who have been on the lake for decades, as I have found this lake intriguing. Prior to the fish kill, there were apparently large areas of grass mats in the coves and there were some really big largemouth in there, but that all changed after the big fish kill and the grass died off or was killed off somewhere along the way as well. The story I heard from the locals (from several sources) was that NCWRC had given up on it as a dead lake, so was not stocking it... but a guy living on the lake was determined and started bucket stocking largemouth (probably with some other locals) and eventually WRC had to take notice that there were bass in the lake again. But the ecosystem had changed, and for its most recent history Belews has not been a 'big bass' lake. You could catch a lot of fish, but just not really likely to catch big fish there. So because of its unique history, since the rise of the Alabama bass, the typical size of largemouth, from what I have been able to gather, has not really changed ... just more fish in the lake than before.

Hence my earlier post that Belews' unique history and the modalities used by the biologists to 'study' a lake (as mentioned by beef15) could yield a biased result based on where or how they did their study. Belews is an enigma, a really unique lake due to its history and ecosystem, and conventional rules just don't always apply there, something some of the posters in this thread have attempted to convey, despite the condescension thrown into it by others.

But hey, what do I know? haha

 

[Lowman]

Belews was once a lake with big fish, before it was considered dead after the kill in the late 70's and 80's reportedly due to selenium. I have had long conversations with people who have been on the lake for decades, as I have found this lake intriguing. Prior to the fish kill, there were apparently large areas of grass mats in the coves and there were some really big largemouth in there, but that all changed after the big fish kill and the grass died off or was killed off somewhere along the way as well. The story I heard from the locals (from several sources) was that NCWRC had given up on it as a dead lake, so was not stocking it... but a guy living on the lake was determined and started bucket stocking largemouth (probably with some other locals) and eventually WRC had to take notice that there were bass in the lake again. But the ecosystem had changed, and for its most recent history Belews has not been a 'big bass' lake. You could catch a lot of fish, but just not really likely to catch big fish there. So because of its unique history, since the rise of the Alabama bass, the typical size of largemouth, from what I have been able to gather, has not really changed ... just more fish in the lake than before.

Hence my earlier post that Belews' unique history and the modalities used by the biologists to 'study' a lake (as mentioned by beef15) could yield a biased result based on where or how they did their study. Belews is an enigma, a really unique lake due to its history and ecosystem, and conventional rules just don't always apply there, something some of the posters in this thread have attempted to convey, despite the condescension thrown into it by others.

But hey, what do I know? haha

Good info. TY.