[Dekelor]

Hey all you fly fisherman!

Ok so a while back I got myself a nice starter setup (would have to look at it again to get name and specs) anyways, it seems to be a decent "learn how to fly fish" rig from what I've heard in reviews and from some shops.

So I've watched video's, I've read books and magazines, I've gone out and tried...

It seems that I can get the "clock" positions right on my casting, and even get it to where i get about ooohh...4-5' of line out there above my head going...

My problem is, when I go to release the line forward to make the actual "cast" everything seems and feels right (then again what do I know) but I see the line going forward like "HEY! We're going to go out there about 10-12 feet" only to see it....come back toward me, as if the wind were blowing the line and fly back at me, and then to see it all kind of crunched up together only a few feet away from me...and yes, no wind, no breeze...I even tried to do it with a breeze and cast WITH the breeze to see if that would propel the line forward only to get the same result...

What am I doing wrong??? How much line do I need going over my head in a nice straight back and forth motion (not making a huge loop above my head but what they said in the video's it should be, a loop no more than about 4-5 inches wide total, nice smooth whipping motion using the wrists as if actually using a real "whip" but without the "pop" at the ends, hence "smooth")??

Teach me oh great masters of fly fishing! Fly fishing is something I want to do ALL the time if I can. Since I was small, I would sneak into my room and make fly's on my own from random things like pillow feathers, some thread my mom had in her sowing kit, sometimes some glue, some hooks I had, some fuzz, whatever....I still have those fly's I made when I was around 12, especially the blue/brown one i had made (my first one) which landed me the one and only trout I caught, and I used it on a spinning reel setup, not a fly fishing pole! I've always wanted to be a fly-fisherman, doing not only the creeks and the steams, but also the rivers, the banks, the brackish waters, off boats, on the ocean, you name it! I dare say i'd prefer fly fishing over conventional means....

Help me become a good fly angler!

Kong

 

[wademaster]

Learn the roll cast....maybe check YouTube. Take an instruction from someone who knows what they're doing....then dedicate as much time as possible to learning how to practically use the long rod to catch your quarry...


Sent from my kayak...

 

[Dekelor]

Checking out the video.....The "Roll Cast" by Bumcast....looks similar to a "whip" motion i used to do with my spinning rig when i wanted to get into those spots where there was very little room. Definitely going to practice this! Looks much simpler and easier than the overhead! Thanks for the tip!!! Any recommendations on people around the New Bern area that would be able to give me some instruction?

 

[Stump1187]

Biggest thing to remember is that you are throwing the line not the lure with fly rods, or at least that is how I think of it. With a well made fly rod on your back cast you will feel the line "load" the rod at full extension, or a feeling that the line is tugging the end of the rod. At that point make a smooth transition to a forward cast.

Also, if you try to overpower the amount of line you have out it will extend out pretty at first, and then the stretch in the line will cause it to recoil back in a pile. Pull off a little more line than what you think you need to throw as if you shoot line and it goes to all the way to the reel with too much force, that recoil happens. I normally keep about 1-2 feet of extra line off the reel in this case as sometimes this happens to me .

Watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDJJ6W23gHw&list=TLLbQL3r1Rp0yia-1srZ6zlwbW_BN6zGn_
And This: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xak_usK0i6E



Always remember, the rod is your friend. Let it do the work.

I know this may be a lot, and some might not agree, but it works for me so hopefully you will find something in it.

 

[NCTribute]

Never heard of line recoil. Your rod tip needs to travel in a straight line, if you try to over power the cast your rod tip will be concave causing what is called a tailing loop. The line crashes into itself and falls in a mess. You could also be dropping the tip on your final cast, rather than stopping at the same point as your false cast.

You do not need a very tight loop, 4-5" is very tight. You just need a 12 - 18" loop to cast well, very tight loops are difficult and only needed in stiff wind. See you are in New Bern, so assume you are using a 6 - 9 wt set up and want relatively long casts for saltwater. You will want to shoot line, so you need a decent amount of line off the reel at your feet.

There are lots of videos out, go slow and make sure you master the begining basics first before trying to throw a ton of line out.

 

[Dekelor]

Thanks for all of the great tips guys!!! This is amazing!!

So, I watched the two vids Stump linked....the first one, holy cow! He makes it soooo simple. The vid's that I watched made it seem way more complicated to do a simple cast, I mean the guy was saying "you want to move it back and forth a few times to get the loop going, get that kinetic energy moving, keep it real tight, you want the loop small not big (and by big he meant like 8" or bigger), let out a little bit of line each time you go back or forward, blah blah" meanwhile this guys like "hey....easy....have the line on the ground off the spool, keep a few feet out in front, straight line, back, before straightened, accelerate forward smoothly, stop at eye level, string goes out, pole does all the work".....THIS would have made all my practice sessions so much simpler to begin with! -.-

Second Video, I'm watching the guys loops, they're HUGE I mean they "look" like they're almost 2 to three feet (visually looking, may in fact be much smaller), but the cast is just as good as the guy in the first video! So that brought some confidence to me. As for the second vid, I already do the stance thing (feet position), it just feels more natural that way, i do the arm thing keeping it level and running it in a straight line (reminded me of a golf swing at first when I first practiced), so it seems I was doing most of it right....except I would do like the guys I watched originally which said to "whip" it forward....neither of these two did that....they also said to do multiple casts back and forth before release....these guys didn't, made it simpler....

the PHYSICS seems more doable with these two video's and makes more sense...I would have thought that you lost energy when you do 3-4 back and forward casts and then whip it out like that. Now my thoughts seem to be confirmed...

THANK you SO much! I'm going to go out and get on the water and start practicing my casts, not even looking to catch anything just gonna practice it the way those two vid's have it till i got it right.

As for your comments NCTribute, yeah it's gonna be salt AND freshwater (and brackish) but yeah. I think, after watching the two vids above linked, that I was in fact over powering the cast...not to mention having learned to basically have about 10-14 feet of line in the air the whole time because of the video's I originally watched, I do recall at times in the beginning the line hitting itself sometimes, and other times because of it's length the end loosing some power and nearly getting me or hearing a "crack" as the line hits the pole....but then I practiced a lot, and yeah my arm would hurt at the end of the day, but I got it into the 4-5" loop size with that long of a line....just didn't make ANY sense to me why anyone would do this, BUT, I trusted the videos...they were recommended to me by a few fly fisherman and a couple of stores....video's looked like they were made in the 60's or 70's to be honest...guy wasn't really doing much except fishing, not really showing you just explaining it....now I know better.

I swear if I go out there and don't have the issues by following the two vids listed here and ya'lls advice, I'm going to smack myself for wasting that time I did trying to do it like the original vid's I watched way back when....but at the same time, if I even see ya'll I may just buy ya'll a couple of beers lol!

Thanks again, and keep those tips coming! Any information will be greatly helpful! You just really have no idea how shocked I am to see it all explained so simply...it's really night and day!

 

[Dekelor]

Ok watched more of the Orvis vids, the one about "adding distance"....I can see where he recommends letting out more line on the back and forward strokes, BUT, he does one MAJOR different thing....the pause...he waits till the line is almost completely straight before going to the next stroke....THIS makes more sense (sorry I'm a science kinda guy lol). Not going to be trying for distance any time soon, gotta get the basic thing down pat following the first two vids listed. Waiting for the storm to kinda...roll on by so I can go out there and practice some basic casts Once I get more confidence and can do it 30, 40, 50 times without issue, THEN i'll worry about distance casting. Also going to practice the Roll Cast after I get the basic one down, make those two my primary casts. Will update next after I went out and tried doing the basic casts this way and trying to forget and ignore what I was originally doing...

 

[Crummy]

Don't get discouraged.

Up until 2 days ago, I hadn't picked my fly rod up in a year. (That's why I grabbed it and took off to my neighborhood pond for some gill and bass action)

Man, was it ugly at first. Totally out of sync.

It got better after 30 min or so and made more precise casts. Still need to get more practice in. Fall trout season coming.

 

[Stump1187]

NCTrib,

Yea I don't know if thats exactly what it is but sometimes I catch myself doing it if I don't take enough line off the reel and try to throw further than i have off. It rolls out perfectly but when it gets to the reel it stops and kind of springs back in a small pile. At 30-40 feet it only springs back about 2 foot but i could see it being the entire length if you were only throwing 10-15. Its the closest thing I could think of to what may be happening with Dekelor here.

 

[Kev2380]

Everyone after awhile develops their own style so you usually don't find the same answer from everyone. Big loops aren't a bad thing if you're throwing heaving flies or big poppers. If you're casting big stuff you don't really want tight loops. You have more of a chance at getting a tailing loop that can really jack things up. You'll also see the angle and way people hold the rod vary from who you talk too. The 10 and 2 thing is probably always going to be what people learn with but I don't know many people that continue that style to this day. I cast almost diagonal all the time. Mainly because depending on the wind and position I'll do a side arm cast or cross my body cast. I'm never casting the same way all day.

To answer you question about recoil usually it's a result of not laying the rod down on your actual presentation cast. You might do one or two false casts to keep the rod high but your final cast should have your rod dropping down almost at the same tempo as the fly line. The line will literally roll out on the grass or water if you do it right. When I say roll out too I don't mean all of the line just the last so many feet. Depends on how much line you're casting. With a lot of line cast your rod tip might actually be pointing down while the rest of the line is still unrolling.

If I can give the biggest advice it would be don't worry about distance as much as accuracy. Many people want to cast 60ft instantly but don't think about accuracy. Doesn't matter if you cast 100ft of fly line if you can't hit your target. I'd say get comfortable with 20ft of line until you can hit a 3ft circle 9/10times then slowly cast more line moving up in 5ft incriments.

 

[Chiefly Fly'n]

the line is almost completely straight before going to the next stroke....

A good point. The back cast and the front cast should be equal in power....you are actually unrolling the line back and forth in the air. Just as the line is about to unroll...start the cast in the opposite direction. The longer the amount of line...the longer you have to wait for it to unroll. If you don't have enough power in the backcast...it begins falling to the ground/water before it has a chance to unroll. Turn your body at a 45 degree angle so you can easily watch your backcast and diagnose what is happening.

I recommend you use your forearm and arm and minimize the movement of the wrist...keep it stiff. Learn the roll cast first. Then transition to a simple pickup and laydown cast. Roll cast about 15 or 20 feet of the line out in front of you. With it on the water or grass in front of you, pick it up with power and back cast/unroll the line in the air behind you. Just as it unrolls, start the forward cast and when it completes its unrolling in front of you...let it drop the the ground. One back cast and one forward cast....as you are getting started. Don't fret the tight loops...that will come...

Most folks pick up the basics in the first hour with a good coach or instructor. ...it can really expedite the learning curve and clear-up misconceptions about fly casting. You might check the Federation of Fly Fishers website to see if there is a certified casting instructor in your area....could be.

Capt. Gary Dubiel, Spec Fever, in Oriental, would be an excellent instructor. He has a web site and I believe you'll find him on this forum. If you get this far west...yell at me.

Good luck!

 

[Chiefly Fly'n]

Just watched the 2 videos in Stump's post... I agree they are excellent and good training tools

 

[Stump1187]

Ty Cheif, cant go wrong with anything from Lefty. The other is shot a little better and he has a good understanding of how to teach what he is trying to get across. I watch both from time to time and still pick up little things by watching the line speed, loop and casting motion.

 

[RouseD]

Great learning here from some really good fly fishermen. If you're like myself, you keep getting better as you practice, practice, practice.

 

[RouseD]

Dekelor, maybe we can get together sometimes. Not the best at fly casting, bu could give you a simple critique on your casting. PM sent.

 

[smokiestroutslayer]

Extend and put your index finger on the rod itself just above the cork. This will help you feel the rod load on your back cast then you know when to pull it forward.

 

[flycaster516]

It is easier to cast 15-20 ft of fly line, PLUS LEADER, than a short line. You are using the weight of the line to cast the fly. Find a friend that fly fishes and ask them to help. Better yet, find an Instructor. Check with a local Fly Shop. They should know of Instructors in their area.
Good luck!
Rob Lurie (IFFF Certified Instructor)