NC Angler Forums banner
1 - 20 of 27 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,407 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
3.0 Sea Drive (225 'Rude) would start and idle fine and when I would open it up it would lose power JUST as it was getting up on plane and drop back down but it would stay running. It would take off and plane easily if I held the key IN (electric primer) as I advanced the throttle. Everything else checked out such as no fuel leaks/air leaks, vent not plugged and one thing I hadn't done was rebuild the VRO so I went and got rebuild kit and got that done.

Now, I run it with rebuilt VRO and it will run and idle but won't stay idling sometimes, sometimes it will but when it does...the oil alarms sounds.

This tells me it just aint pumpin' fuel. Does this sound like I need to try rebuilding it again or what? I haven't been down by the motor to hear how often it is clicking but, when it runs there is plenty of blue smoke and when I give it gas it accelerates fine (with boat on trailer, foot in lake, motor in gear). I haven't actually water tested it yet. That oil alarm scares me.

I appreciate any thoughts guys. And yes, I know about VRO's by doing lots of reading/research and I've decided the VRO2 (what I have) will be just fine. I am not going to premix! (150 gallon tank)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,407 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
We got them same problem. Could be you need a new oil sensor. Or you could have water in your oil. It sucks when you cant go any faster than 5mph when you drove 5 hours to fish.
I did clean out the oil tank but...may have collected more water in the 7 months since. Easy to check that. A new sensor is a huge possibility. I know it USED to work because, well...it has given me an alarm that was legitimate before BUT, it is me and things tend to break or go inop. Ill look up the procedure on how to test that.
Thanks for the suggestions!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,407 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Well there went my suggestion :eek::rolleyes:

Hope you get it sorted out 204! I'm fixing to dive into a lower-unit rebuild myself.
Ha...well, it MIGHT come to that but, I really like having a VRO. I have done a lot of research on them and I think they get blamed for a lot of damage that they didn't cause.
I suppose I could use a remote tank, water test it with premix and see if it performs?
 

·
Red X Angler
Joined
·
16,054 Posts
I hate VRO I refuse to even work on it. The less you have to depend on an engine doing for itself, the better off you are. When I put it in the fuel tank I know it's there and it's getting where it needs to go. VRO does save oil but in the long run, repairs and possible devastating malfunctions how much did they really save? VRO is designed for the guy that buys new every few years. For those of us working on limited funds, simple is better. I feel the same way about 4 strokes. I see motors from the 70s regularly powering boats around here. Even the 60s, but I can bet you good money you will not see 40yr old+ 4 strokes on the water in the future..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,407 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Drop. I hear ya man. I do. The only thing is, VRO's don't cause a lot of engine failures. At least that is from what I have read. I do agree about the "being simple" part. I will probably always have a motor that is 20+ years old and I think that if it were feasible (i.e not a huge gas tank) I would pre mix and not worry about it. On a bass boat that I had with an 18 gallon tank I would premix but the issue with such a large tank is to accurately mix, I would need to start with a near-empty tank every time. I have no idea how many gallons I have when my gauge reads 1/4 tank. I can do the math and figure 1/4 of tanks total capacity but, do I really want to trust my motor to a gauge that may or may not be 100% accurate? (it's a new gauge btw).

I guess I am not 100% dead set against pre mix it just seems like a properly functioning VRO would be more efficient (clearly not my utmost priority seeing as how I am using a late eighties two stroke large bore V6 outboard) but more accurate rather than me clumsily dumping however many gallons of oil into a gas tank containing an amount of gasoline that I could only guess at.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,375 Posts
Why would you be guessing? You should know how many gallons of gas you put in each time, just add the corresponding amount of oil needed????? What ever fuel is already in the tank has the correct amount of oil if done this way.
 

·
Red X Angler
Joined
·
16,054 Posts
you only have to figure out what you currently have. Err on the side of safety and add what oil is needed at the pump from then on.. Too oily isn't gonna hurt a thing unless you go crazy with amount..
 
  • Like
Reactions: RouseD

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,375 Posts
you only have to figure out what you currently have. Err on the side of safety and add what oil is needed at the pump from then on.. Too oily isn't gonna hurt a thing unless you go crazy with amount..
If he knows the tank capacity, just fill it full, then you know the amount of gas, add oil and then just add oil with each fill up. Easy peasy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,407 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
OK so right that makes sense. I would just be guessing on the initial mix. After that just whatever amount of gas I add.

Now I have to decide. $240 for a fuel pump? Or block oil side of VRO and use fuel side to pump? This motor seems to run the best with the amount of fuel that would've flooded my old merc!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,855 Posts
I hate VRO I refuse to even work on it. The less you have to depend on an engine doing for itself, the better off you are. When I put it in the fuel tank I know it's there and it's getting where it needs to go. VRO does save oil but in the long run, repairs and possible devastating malfunctions how much did they really save? VRO is designed for the guy that buys new every few years. For those of us working on limited funds, simple is better. I feel the same way about 4 strokes. I see motors from the 70s regularly powering boats around here. Even the 60s, but I can bet you good money you will not see 40yr old+ 4 strokes on the water in the future..
That is why they have alarms.
I've used VRO heavily in the past...and loved it.
I would rather run VRO than not, especially with the cost of oil and fuel these days.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,407 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
So, DR...what do you think? Why am I having an oil alarm after I rebuilt it. The carb supply line (VRO out) might have been pinched after I reinstalled VRO so, I re routed the fuel lines to eliminate ANY restriction but haven't tested it yet (alarm beeped before, not sure now). The primer bulb get's very hard and stays kinda firm while motor is running (idling) so I would say I am free of leaks (positive leaks of fuel and negative leaks of air).
The alarm was functioning pre-rebuild and of course...I touched it, so it went to crap. It now sounds after a minute or so and sometimes the motor won't stay idling. Like I said; I re-routed the lines so there is no possibility of restriction and I am using 3/8" fuel line. I will test it again and report back but, am I missing something?

I am not totally against pre-mixing but I would rather keep my VRO. I honestly think they get more negative press than they deserve. Obviously whatever gets me on the water and fishing

Thanks all for your comments and suggestions
 

·
Red X Angler
Joined
·
16,054 Posts
My 70hp Rude had an overheat alarm too, did it work when I needed it most NOPE. By the time it sounded my motor was cooked.

Good news for you is VRO on Rudes is vacuum driven not geared like merc and yammys. Might be an anti siphon valve in your tank stuck or sticking on the gas out side of your tank. Have you replaced ALL the fuel lines from the tank out? The alarm is not just oil it can mean starved for fuel period. Did you rebuild all of the vro pump or just the oil side?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,855 Posts
So, DR...what do you think? Why am I having an oil alarm after I rebuilt it. The carb supply line (VRO out) might have been pinched after I reinstalled VRO so, I re routed the fuel lines to eliminate ANY restriction but haven't tested it yet (alarm beeped before, not sure now). The primer bulb get's very hard and stays kinda firm while motor is running (idling) so I would say I am free of leaks (positive leaks of fuel and negative leaks of air).
The alarm was functioning pre-rebuild and of course...I touched it, so it went to crap. It now sounds after a minute or so and sometimes the motor won't stay idling. Like I said; I re-routed the lines so there is no possibility of restriction and I am using 3/8" fuel line. I will test it again and report back but, am I missing something?

I am not totally against pre-mixing but I would rather keep my VRO. I honestly think they get more negative press than they deserve. Obviously whatever gets me on the water and fishing

Thanks all for your comments and suggestions
IF you look at where most of the negativity comes from it's the "old" outboard mechanics. The ones that grew up mixing and you can't find a stick big enough to make them change. I ran the crap out of my first one with absolutely no issues. The second one I would get an alarm intermittently. Mechanically there was nothing wrong with it......but that was my case. Yours may be much different. Since those two I've probably bought and sold 8 or 9 with VRO. Boats I didn't use very much but boats I bought and sold and they all functioned.

One thing I have always been particular over is only running the oil recommended by the manufacturer. Some people run the cheap stuff but the OEM has worked well enough for me with few problems.
I have a 120 looper I wish had it hanging on the stand. The Jack Wagon of a previous owner took it off and threw it away. The motor has less than 200 hours on it.

I really don't know much about them technically but my question is where does your alarm come from? If it's coming from the binnacle it could be an overheating audible. I've seen that before. The alarms sound or sequence different but you probably know what it should sound like for the VRO better than I do at this point.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,407 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
My 70hp Rude had an overheat alarm too, did it work when I needed it most NOPE. By the time it sounded my motor was cooked.

Good news for you is VRO on Rudes is vacuum driven not geared like merc and yammys. Might be an anti siphon valve in your tank stuck or sticking on the gas out side of your tank. Have you replaced ALL the fuel lines from the tank out? The alarm is not just oil it can mean starved for fuel period. Did you rebuild all of the vro pump or just the oil side?
Yeah, you're correct it is a vacuum pulse that drives it. I have had no issue with any OMC VRO before but plenty from a couple of Mercs. I am worried about fuel starvation...running lean means less oil! I rebuilt the entire thing which just included a couple diaphragms (one gas side, one on oil side) and a couple rubber grommets. I know the pulse line to crankcase is not blocked or pinched. I did replace all the lines from tank to include, fuel fill (what a pita that was), vent and supply. I did NOT check my anti siphon valve...good thought. I know Ive got one because of the 90* off the tank that those valves are usually in.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,407 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
IF you look at where most of the negativity comes from it's the "old" outboard mechanics. The ones that grew up mixing and you can't find a stick big enough to make them change. I ran the crap out of my first one with absolutely no issues. The second one I would get an alarm intermittently. Mechanically there was nothing wrong with it......but that was my case. Yours may be much different. Since those two I've probably bought and sold 8 or 9 with VRO. Boats I didn't use very much but boats I bought and sold and they all functioned.

One thing I have always been particular over is only running the oil recommended by the manufacturer. Some people run the cheap stuff but the OEM has worked well enough for me with few problems.
I have a 120 looper I wish had it hanging on the stand. The Jack Wagon of a previous owner took it off and threw it away. The motor has less than 200 hours on it.

I really don't know much about them technically but my question is where does your alarm come from? If it's coming from the binnacle it could be an overheating audible. I've seen that before. The alarms sound or sequence different but you probably know what it should sound like for the VRO better than I do at this point.
The alarm is an intermittent beep.....beep....beep. I know on the OMC's (at least this vintage) a constant alarm was overheat and the intermittent is restricted flow. It is referred to as an oil alarm but...I think mostly it is a restricted fuel flow. Which is why I think 'Drop may be on to something with the sticky anti siphon valve.
I always use the Evinrude oil. It costs a lot but its cheap insurance.

Ill be down at my boat this weekend so will be looking at a couple different things. If you guys have any other ideas for things to look at...I am all ears!
Thanks again
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,407 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
UPDATE. Messed with it for a couple hours yesterday.

It takes forever to get started. I know it is cold natured but it never took this long to start before. Once started, it idled for about 30 seconds then the alarm went off (oil/fuel restriction). I was still getting a lot of blue smoke out of exhaust so I left it running. It ran for a total of around 1 minute and stalled.
It started right back up, idled for about 4 seconds then died out. (stalled)
I went and pumped both bulbs, fuel and oil. It started back up, idled with blue smoke for a few seconds. Blue smoke quit so I immediately cut it off.
My thoughts. The oil alarm does not put it in SLOW or limp mode because it stayed idling just fine as alarm was sounding. VRO isn't drawing enough fuel/oil. Throughout the whole process, the bulb never got flat or very soft. Anti siphon valve is not present. It has that 90* fitting you typically see them in but does not contain the spring or ball-check-valve.
My way forward; remove VRO, disassemble and rebuild hoping that for some reason I just didn't do it right the first time. Remove VRO, add fuel pump and pre mix

Suggestions, comments, criticisms?
 

·
Red X Angler
Joined
·
16,054 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,407 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Yeah roger that. I had to go into work so I had to leave my in-laws (my boat too) but will be back next weekend and will test it. I did that test with vac pump before and pump didn't hold hence the rebuild. I hadn't tested it after the rebuild yet...was hoping that it would suddenly--work. Jokes on me.
If it passes those tests I will remove it, sell it on ebay with full disclosure and install a fuel pump. I really want to keep that VRO but if it keeps me from fishing I will bid it farewell. I figure it will cost me more money to take it to a mechanic, labor and probably parts than the $240 for a pump.

Thanks for the replies gents. I will report back with my findings. Hoping to help someone else out by posting my struggles!
 
1 - 20 of 27 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top