[backlash]

From the story in the News and Observer it appears that SW License sales are falling far short of estimates. However, it appears that those those proceeds have already been allocated to some very worthwhile projects.

newsobserver.com | License in limbo

 

[sundrop]

If enforcement picks up so will sales!!

 

[speckhunter80]

$860,000 to basically sell and administer the license and nothing to enforcement or habitat restoration, doesn't sound like worthwhile projects to me.

 

[Topsail Angler]

As to enforcement, I think they did they right thing by phasing in tickets. Notice they issued around 4800 citations for not having a license but 2800 were warnings. After 250 years of not having a license required to fish in the salty stuff it makes sense to phase it it. They did start issuing fines in the latter half of the year. I expect that will increase this year. BTW - I was checked 4 times last year but I'm on the water ALOT.

Most of the money has not been spent yet - they waited to see how much they got before they spent it - smart. I know a couple of projects they are talking about helping to fund include boating access on the coast - important, public piers - important, Flounder restoration through hatchery support - important. Stay tuned guys - I'm confident our money will be well spent but let's keep 'em honest!

 

[backlash]

Thanks TA

I see from the article that part of the money is being spent on public access projetcs

 

[sundrop]

I agree it was nice to "phase" the license in and give everyone the benefit of the doubt for one yr. I just know alot of people said " Its just a warning I'm not buying one this year"... So the numbers will be much better next time.

I've fished this area going on 3 yrs now and haven't had my license checked once.
I beleive the license is good if for no more than accounting of the recreational fishing in NC.

 

[speckhunter80]

Sundrop,
That was one of the arguments in getting it passed. Because we could not accurately determine the number of rec. fisherman we were going to lose Wallop-Breaux money. Now with the blanket licenses for guides, head boats and piers we still do not have an accurate number and won't.

 

[sundrop]

Sundrop,
That was one of the arguments in getting it passed. Because we could not accurately determine the number of rec. fisherman we were going to lose Wallop-Breaux money. Now with the blanket licenses for guides, head boats and piers we still do not have an accurate number and won't.

If the "blanket license" holders were required to turn in a "headcount" and based on a determined percentage of people who use piers/headboats etc but may already hold a license, I'm sure a reasonably accurate number could be found. Guides and piers know how many people come and go each day so it would be easy to keep records for the state. It just needs to be done.

 

[Topsail Angler]

Drop - no pier I know of keeps track of individuals - just numbers. So say 100 people come in today and 100 tomorrow. How many are the same? no one know. At least with a license you keep track of how many fisherman there are each year. There's no perfect way to do it without it becoming a paperwork nightmare.

The other big "prize" is all that tackle money. Tackle makers have to pay a 10% tax on all tackle they sell for recreational use. That goes to the feds and then gets distributed to the states based on how many recreational license holders they issue. They also account for blanket license (they use averages).

So without a rec license - we weren't getting our share of the money - now we will but this will be the first year we get a portion of that based on the salty stuff as well as the freshwater license.

 

[rangergreg281]

As to enforcement, I think they did they right thing by phasing in tickets. Notice they issued around 4800 citations for not having a license but 2800 were warnings. After 250 years of not having a license required to fish in the salty stuff it makes sense to phase it it. They did start issuing fines in the latter half of the year. I expect that will increase this year. BTW - I was checked 4 times last year but I'm on the water ALOT.

They did the same thing when the legislature repealed the "no license required for fishing in the county of your residence" portion of the inland water fishing license. We were mandated by the revised law to give a first time violator a written warning, but if that person was caught a second time, we were good to write a citation. I agree that when making a change like this, you absolutely have to give the public enough time to adjust. To do otherwise would be setting them up to fail.

Also, beginning Jan 1 of this year, there won't be any more mandatory warnings, so yes, there will be a lot more citations. The "break in" period for both the CRFL and the updated inland fishing license restriction have sunset.

However, if you do happen to end up with a citation, it isn't the end of the world. I can't speak for the rest of the state (but I'm almost certain that it is statewide), if you go and purchase a fishing license before your court date, the charge will be dropped. All of the WRC guys I know and work around will readily drop a fishing without a license charge if that person shows up to court with one. The goal of enforcing this regulation is to get everyone legal, not to collect the fines.

 

[gambusia]

As to enforcement, I think they did they right thing by phasing in tickets. Notice they issued around 4800 citations for not having a license but 2800 were warnings. After 250 years of not having a license required to fish in the salty stuff it makes sense to phase it it. They did start issuing fines in the latter half of the year. I expect that will increase this year. BTW - I was checked 4 times last year but I'm on the water ALOT.

Most of the money has not been spent yet - they waited to see how much they got before they spent it - smart. I know a couple of projects they are talking about helping to fund include boating access on the coast - important, public piers - important, Flounder restoration through hatchery support - important. Stay tuned guys - I'm confident our money will be well spent but let's keep 'em honest!

I wish I could be as confident as you but I cannot.

 

[sundrop]

TA I didnt think about repeat visitors to piers etc, I see your point. I guess it would be a nightmare to do a headcount. Perhaps they could just note in-state vs out of state visitors or something to give them some idea of blanket usage. We need these numbers recognized. Maybe a "fee" could be used for guides/piers etc. A public angling access tax if you dont have a NC license?? This combined with an inexpensive 3 or 5 day license would help alot. This would give us more of a headcount and inspire folks to go ahead and buy a license.

 

[Topsail Angler]

I wish I could be as confident as you but I cannot.

Then I recommend you do as I do, follow the actions of the advisory board set-up to recommend how the money be spent, attend or at least follow the hearings the various agencies hold and WRITE to commissioners and legislators. In summary, be an activist. The more of us that do that, the more likely we will have a desirable outcome!

 

[lefty]

TA I didn't think about repeat visitors to piers etc, I see your point. I guess it would be a nightmare to do a headcount.

It also seems that, if you required pier or especially charter operators to check licenses for their clients, that it would put them in difficult pseudo-enforcement situations. I can see a guy showing up with $500 cash for an offshore charter and being turned away because he didn't get his $5 three-day license. Neither the client nor the captain would be happy with that, and I doubt that the 3-day license would be sold, either.

They might be able to set a pier up as an on-demand license-sales location, but that seems a bit extreme for charter captains.

I don't know how Wallop-Breaux works -- does it make a difference if 100 guys visit a pier for one day each, or if the same guy comes for 100 days?

 

[Topsail Angler]

So to clear up some confusion here how it works:

For piers they pay for their blanket license by the foot (length of pier). It's an annual license. As far as I can tell, there is no reporting. This is an important aspect for piers. A good number of their customers who are out of town folks that after paying $7 to fish on the pier wouldn't do that if they had to pay another $5 or $10 (depending on instate or out of state residency) for a license.

For Charter Captains, they have two choices - 6 persons and under per trip - $250.00; more than 6 persons - $350.

They are not required to buy the blanket license and in fact I know a few that do not. In that case the individuals fishing must have their own license. I know a one Charter Capt. who didn't buy the license because he wants his customers to buy a license to help out recreational fishing in the state.

BTW - NC sells licenses with 3 terms - 10 day, annual and lifetime.

 

[sundrop]

That leaves a huge gap! I dont want to see Guides or Piers having to pay large sums of money but only $250 a yr for a Guide that can have easily 1000+ customers a year? I don't like the blanket idea. Giudd trips should require a license and the Guide should be able to sell that license in 1 day increments for just a few dollars. He has to report income and pay taxes anyway, so having to send in the license money shouldnt be a big deal either. Same for piers, if you have a license you pay one fee ( $7 per rod etc) if not you buy a daily license for an additional buck or 2 and it is sent in quarterly just like sales tax etc.
Not that much more to keep up with.
Besides, it is easier to get a dollar from everyone than a million from one person. if you'll walk away from a $500 charter over $5, or pier fishing over $1 and the guide/pier operator has the license on site, keep walking!

 

[Topsail Angler]

Yeah but them ain't the rules Drop. Out of state folks pay $10 for a 10 day license (the shortest available) and there are many that would not fish for a day on a pier if they have to pay $10 in addition to 7 or 8 for the pier. It ain't worth the paperwork and time to sell a $1 license - cost more to process than you collect. Piers pay $4 per linear foot - so most are paying around $3 - 4,000.00 per year - seems plenty enough considering about half the people that fish there have licenses anyway as they fish other places too.

As for Charter Capt., I know of no 6 pack charters that do thousands of customers a year - not even close. Maybe on the big head boats. But I am surprised they only charged $350 for the bigger boat.

 

[sundrop]

I see the pier point, but the system needs to change for charters. Both for the accountability and the revenue. if guide carries 2 folks a day 250 days a yr thats 500 folks figure 150 are out of state/unlicensed charge $5. $750 yr x a heck of alot of fishermen that charter and you get a better head count (not exact, but we are well aware they arent working with exact numbers as it is so lets get closer at least) Then you get revenue and Rec counts up so we have a solid stand for our sport.

 

[n4svz]

Well, this thread is useful to me since it made me look at my license and see that it will expire in 2 weeks!

So, it was off to the NCWC web site and order up a new one, including the CRFL. I wouldn't have ordered the CRFL until renewal anyway. Perhaps some of the reason for low sales is exactly that. I haven't been to the coast yet this year and wouldn't have needed the CRFL yet.

 

[speckhunter80]

Sundrop, I know many inshore fishing saltwater guides and a few freshwater guides. None of which take 1000 fisherman much less get paid by 1000 fisherman. Most of the guides have a set fee for a half, three quarter or full day trip and this is for 1-3 anglers, total. If you fish by yourself you are going to pay the whole fee and if you bring a friend then you can split that fee.

Since some guides and most head boats in the salt must keep trip tickets it would not be difficult to keep track of the numbers of fisherman; however how would that guide know whether or not that person had already been counted at some other point.

So you can see the only way to get completely accurate numbers would be to require everyone to buy a license. I myself am probably not counted since I bought a lifetime sportsman license over 20 years ago.